NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

central plank of 'aggressive/offensiveness' by SP was comparing DU to rapist;
that seems to have been swept aside.
NC now focusing on DU being more upset after the event than what he described in his statement of what happened.
Says KS 'turning up the emotional heat'.

Sharp intake of breath from me!

But the common saying is He said, She said.

If you were referring to 2 men with disputed accounts, you would still say He said, She said.

Nauticant's posts at the top of each thread tell you which witness appeared when. Having worked out which day you want to look at, you then go to that day on the Tribunal Tweets substack to read the evidence e from the relevant session.

I was wondering how this had got to so many threads.

With Pete appearing I am now understanding 😂

This sounds painfully bonkers. Where is common sense!

Surely you can't just write what you wished someone had said in a datix?

Finally it's been spotted why I did that!

True. You have to write facts. Verbatim. Not 'so and so said this word which implies this thing'

Isn't that just like saying "I feel sorry for shoplifters who get caught, after all life is easy for shoplifters who don't"?

This is incredible!! -
KS - reported it as and still do think it's a HI
NC - you are aware SP has been cleared of all KS - yes
NC - board didn't find.
KS - believe not enough evidence

NC just moves on..

NC - email to ED, you say SP hard to work with before today, beth has a log of less severe incidents

Incoming...

“as I saw fit” 😶

Which senior high paid professional got to sit down with Sandie and fill out an inference-filled form for her wellbeing?

Glad you have picked this up too - an apparently shocking statement from the judge.

It's like Sir Humphrey from Yes Minister saying that meeting minutes should reflect what the Minister wishes (with the benefit of hindsight) had been said at the meeting

Have you physically met trans-identifying men in real life? I have. The only time I was fooled for a while was by a very short, dumpy middle-aged transwoman, who I thought was an ugly woman, until he opened his mouth and his male socialization (not his voice, no Adam's apple) was easily apparant.

Oh NC going in for kill. “You’ve put on an exemplary performance of priority and virtue to your colleagues….”

This is not going well for KS at all, pretty much laying bare all the unfair influence she has had on this situation

From TT

NC - no mention of being stopped, if she'd capitulated earlier he would have left
KS - can only speak to discussion and what was written down
NC - narrative of datix, we know you completed this with DU on 29th dec, it refers to akin to a convicted rapist in a womens prison
NC - what DU said same as situation, you added the ref to rapist
KS - what's offensive is the inference, which is why it was important to mention in a hate incident
NC - it's important on datix to be specific and accurate, report what was said and done, not interpretation, agree
KS - agree and think that's what I did
NC - as DU reported to you just like that person in prison
KS - I wrote nurse alluded to
NC - not better to add what DU reported to you which gives impression rapist was mentioned
KS - I thought i was being fair

Fifer : ah dinnae ayewis say "did ye aye" but when ah dae, it's cos ye didnae

NC - datix mentions aggressive and confrontational manner, we don't see in DU email
KS - not in email, but starts saying upsetting and discussed at length on 29th dec and she immediately felt SP was confrontational and aggressive.
NC - whether SP was confront/aggress and whether DU was upset are different things?
KS - I reported what I ....
NC - asked about chr but said nothing about offensive language
KS - we agreed it was offensive
NC - what we see is you turning up emotional heat for the datix

NC's ring has gone unheeded today. The six green lights are still on, have been since the first session. Two more have lit up, unnoticed until now. They are lavender.

KS - what i saw was jr dr upset and not wanting to work because of a colleague
NC -completing as advocacy for DU
KS - filling out as dr responsible for DU wellbeing, filled it as i saw fit to describe incident as occured.
JR - previous was inappropriate behaviour
NC - if you hadn't made it look this way it woujdn't have been considered a HI

Fifer : ah wis peely wally as a bairn. Gran didnae hink ma mither wis feedin me enough. She yased tae mak me custard and stick twa extra eggs in it. If ye hink aboot it, this Datix is a bit lik the custard eh. Big Sond will have tae consider if that puddin was indeed egged up. The metaphor probably fa's doon at the bit aboot the peely wally bairn. Probably.

KS - reported it as and still do think it's a HI
NC - you are aware SP has been cleared of all KS - yes NC - board didn't find. KS - believe not enough evidence NC - email to ED, you say SP hard to work with before today, beth has a log of less severe incidents
NC - so on 29th you heard about other 2 incidents
(KS) Yes
NC - first time heard?
KS - yes
NC - you describe as less severe
KS - less severe to beth

(my emphasis)

Are you suggesting it's not possible for a woman to be over 6 ft tall and have hairy feet?

*propriety

Piety, not priority. Probably your autocorrect.

I know TW whom I only know are TW bc I met them in an earlier stage of their transition.

Or you’d simply put it differently, ‘one persons word against another’s’.

It is true that the minute taker has a lot of power.

Naomi is really getting stuck in. Referring to KS 'performance of piety and virtue '

Amazing how KS is fluctuating between tears, and rather abrupt snarky answers (I'm watching)