NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

I have the same top as Shelia.

Its M&S 😂

From that Times article:
"Meanwhile, Searle was also confronted with emails between witnesses involved in the investigation into Peggie’s conduct. An email sent on January 5, 2024, stated that “information must not be shared outside this group as risk of foot in mouth syndrome — it is quite a serious risk of foot in mouth syndrome’.”

I believe that's addressed to the group of six.

Yep.
I’ve always been unsure if she could return to work there but now I’m pretty sure she’ll never go back! She could never trust her colleagues again.
Just hope the payout is big enough for her to retire early

I haven't watched any of the tribunal, either this time or the previous round. But it's interesting reading obververs' opinions of DU and contrasting them with KS's comments about DU's appearance, being a woman, not a man, not oviously trans etc.

I've only seen the photos in the press which are all soft-focus, sweeping hair, smiles, etc., and seem to give a completely different impression from what observers have said. Apart from the beardy photos and the hide-behind-a-scarf photos obviously.

That's exactly what they've done over the internal investigation.

"We can't find anything to say you did anything wrong but we're sure you did because the fragrant Beth said you did and we believe her. So we're still saying you were nasty and need to be told how to think but we're trying to look like we're not. Beth is a doctor so she's surrounded by a GMC force field that would vapourise her if she told a lie and look - SHE'S STILL HERE."

Dr. S? Are you on the gin after a bad day?

WELL - I've just caught up after switching between TT on Nitter and here all afternoon.

Those emails are the icing on the cake. Glad I stuck with this thread til the end! (Obviously it's not the end....)

I wish all of the bundle could be released - I find it a bit easier to keep up with what's being said compared with TT's shorthand. Thanks everyone for explaining the various situations (I couldn't quite make out what the deal was with KS and Rahana but I think I have got it now).

I think JR strategy at this point is to try and reduce detriments.

Interestingly she was also Respondent’s counsel
for the recent MoD Tribunal which she lost.

The judgement was wholly scathing of the Respondent’s approach and supported discrimination and constructive dismissal. The judgement was lovely about the Claimant as he had been fair and reasonable throughout a very difficult process.

Maya posted the judgement on Twitter yesterday. It’s long but so illuminating.

Automatically deleted after 30 days? They must have upgraded their systems since I worked for the NHS then. I used to end up with 1000's, months of emails because I rarely deleted any. I always had to do a massive cleanup at some point.

OMG have you seen whats coming tomorrow?

why do we have equality and LBQT reps when good ole HR knows what its doing?

https://x.com/LesbianPersist/status/1948073440239395069

The cynic in me wonders if the doctors were sent the instruction to search for Disclosure because they wouldn’t go into deleted and archived files like Fife’s IT presumably would.

All within three months of BU landing there, with his offer to help write their inclusion policies.

I'm not sure of the technicalities of this one, but surely full disclosures of all relevant documents have to be disclosed to both sides well in advance of any hearing, for the judge to decide what is and isn't permissible in court.

The point of the discarded email was laboured a great deal today, so you do have to wonder whether both sides have had sight of these by now. I'm agog to hear what the IT expert will say when that time rolls around.

NC has carefully laid some foundations, IMO. She's too competent a lawyer to lead witnesses down false garden paths, and Lawyering Rule #1 is never ask a question to which you don't already know the answer. Also, the tactic of giving KS a platform to smear SP without a scrap of supporting evidence was a master stroke. Hostility to SP, blatant dishonesty, sheer incompetence and failure to follow routine procedure - against the advice of their own HR - all skilfully revealed. And even then bettered by NC's conclusion: 'You're intelligent, aren't you?', as if anyone is ever going to answer 'no' to that question.

Intelligent - yet still managed to fuck up on such a monumentally incompetent, deeply spiteful, over-personal and mendacious level.

In awe. What a very clever piece of lawyering.

How have they got hold of the bundle? Is it published somewhere?

It was a really fast deletion, too. WTF?

As per

In person observers have access in court and some have been transcribing parts. The obvious aren't allowed to make copies /take photos so the have to transcribe what they see. Obviously not an option for all 1700+ pages.

Well, evidently you can't say it, but I can't begin to imagine what's wrong with it. I know some people saw it because I had some reactions.

Now the second one is gone.

It will be a shame if a good nurse is lost because she wanted a single-sex changing room.

It would, wouldn't it!

Right.

The idea that believing that gender identity is more important than sex is not unfairly described as an ideology IMO.

Love your handle!

I agree, and I think it's also fair to describe the idea that a man can be a woman as a delusion.