NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

Those emails are absolute gold. Not only have HR clearly advised against the suspension but there seems to be history of their advice being ignored in similar circumstances. No wonder the NHS is such an absolute shit show with all these leaders who think they know better than those who are supposed to advise them. If I could summarise this whole thing in one word it would be celery arrogance.

As a retired HR professional I feel their pain - banging head against a brick wall.

HR always get criticised, but good HR is worth its weight in these situations provided you listen to their advice.

These emails coming out like trailers for a horror movie 😅

What I’ve been thinking too. The emotional high but “safe” as it will never be realised because he’s too young, he’s married, he’s trans. But he can be mothered. All the stuff that women tell themselves to make it OK and to make themselves special and dear to the loved one.
Oh and he is well aware of this and makes excellent use of it.

Thinking about people writing inappropriate emails.

IANAL but in my professional life, I helped sort out various messes, client service failures and staff matters. Not my official role but used as a black hat (prepared to be disliked as I sorted stuff and kept lawsuits to a minimum).

The first instruction - preserve all documents, notes, email, electronic files.
Second instruction - do not create any new documents, emails, explanations, slack conversations, online chats, etc until given detailed explicit instructions on how to do so that it was covered by privilege (attorney work product).
Third instruction - do not discuss among yourselves

Depending on where the problem was happening - If 2 or 3 was not respected, I was known to appear in the offenders office and explain consequences, including that people with broken fingers struggled to type. If not, a scary phone call and a reminder of the instructions.

I so want to send these women cards too!

They spoke calm and sense in the emerging chaos being whipped up by KS and the rest and were absolutely ignored.

How horrifying for them to see how it's all panned out now (and to possibly still work for or admit you were employed by NHS Fife).

Wow this Jacquelin Herkes seems to have a brain, a backbone, an awareness of the realpolitik of the ED, and ethical values!
She points out key things like that SP hasn't been asked for her side of the story, never any complaints in the past etc.
Is she from a galaxy far far away from where the rest of them come from? How come she can 'get it', and none of the others can?

I was going to share a cracking lemon and blueberry cake recipe too! Oh well, what a shame, never mind.

Quote from one of the emails - Emergency Dept ‘has never had a suspension before.’
!!!!
Poor SP - really being made an example of.

Dear lord. It's a miracle!!! A MIRACLE!!! 😂

Phew. Only just caught up as had a friend round this pm.

Personally I'd like to get back to the old hens. Are they fancy breeds/Pekin/ tufty legs? I hope that the knobbly eggs they produce In their dotage don't cause discomfort.

.

Just a wee observation from today that demonstrates KS's bias (or commitment to the bit).

KS implies Wee Sondie blocked Upton's exit...

NC - he wouldn't leave or end conv till she did what he wanted
KS - not clear
NC - nothing stopping him leaving was there
KS - DU said maybe layout meant Sp was in the way
NC - blocking him
KS - between her and door

..while Upton's testimony from 10 Feb states the opposite.

NC Re Christmas eve. Your email to AG as part of IX. You said had already changed ready to go home and washing hands. [they look at photos] Apart from personal possessions, this is how CR was on Xmas eve.
DU y
NC Handbasins nearest toilet cubicles
DU y
NC between toilets/basins and door there are the lockers.
DU y
NC You say you walked around SP to get your bag after washed your hands.
DU y
NC SP didn't block your path
DU N
NC Then you were nearer the door than she was.
DU y
NC so you were free to leave at any time.
DU Physically free, yes.

Imagine if it had a Sorting Hat function. Dr. Searle is definitely a Slytherin!

It may mean Emergency Care Directorate which will cover more areas than just the Emergency Dept. So could be an MIU, an Acute Medical Admissions area, a Same Day Emergency Clinic and other similar areas. So it can be simultaneously true that ECD suspend a lot of staff and Esther Davidson has never known a nurse be suspended in A&E.

But they also say "whatever advice we give in relation to alternatives to suspension it is always disregarded". So I don't know.

edit: cross posted with @FleurFloor who clarifies.

Well spotted!
'The truth' is whatever suits her current narrative best. It's a shame it wasn't picked up at the time.

My thought when she claimed today that SP was between DrU and the door was 'well, why didn't he say 'Excuse me', I'm sure she would gladly have stepped aside to let him leave the women's changing room, she was unlikely to use her impressive physical presence to keep him there1

I work for another Board in NHSS - it's exactly the same here. I have emails going back several years in my sent items, longer in some of my folders, and emails in my deleted folder that I have moved there get emptied once they get past 1000. As I am not the best at remembering to do this I regularly sit with a full deleted folder. IT do not need to know this.

Unless NHS Fife have a very different system Searle has either set an automatic deletion on her inbox and sent items, or is lying through her teeth - and if I were a betting woman I'd be at Hills with £50 on the latter.

Thanks for the clarification. It's still pretty damning!

The clinical staff have clearly run roughshod here and not actually consulted anyone on any sort of process that they should be following. But from previously working in the civil service that shouldn't really shock me!

There is the height difference too. DU is 6 feet , “Miss “Peggie is just over 5 feet.
( the thread moves so fast, this is in regard to the changing room and blocking)

Upton’s Mum?

And no previous suspensions in A&E which gives lie to LM’s account that she likes to provide those returning from suspension with supervision as ‘support’

She’s clearly never had to do this for an A&E nurse before, at least. But given they are saying suspensions are generally rare this also gives lie to that. I think LM is a classicly plausible sociopath who believes their own creation of themselves.

Upton? KS? JR?

Lottie Myles (if that's who you mean) covers a lot more departments than A&E, though, so I don't think that's necessarily untrue.