NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

It's the cabal of stupid from Reddit changing shift.

No. I was about to nip out when it came on Reporting Scotland so I hung about and they never mentioned she'd broken down in tears. I wonder if it's an editorial decision rather than the individual reporter's.

Well luckily no one has to pay any attention to your personal views.

The RCN refused to help her from the get go, that says a lot more about them and their ideological stance than anything else.

And as has been said many times, even if she turned out to be a racist, homophobic, bitchy gossip who doesn't do her washing up before she goes to bed, never took her turn on the PTA cake stall AND never puts her bins out without a neighbour reminding her.....she has managed to turn up with no issues raised for 3 decades to work like a dog doing nights as a state sponsored grown up for the drunk, abusive, violent, broken, demented and infectiously ill. She deserves a fair hearing to find out what on earth went so wrong here.

And even if she was a criminal, who stole the church silver and pick pocketed on tube trains every weekend. Even if she was a convicted killer. She is still absolutely within her rights to expect and receive privacy from males when on a state of vulnerability and undress.

Well luckily no one has to pay any attention to your personal views.

The RCN refused to help her from the get go, that says a lot more about them and their ideological stance than anything else.

And as has been said many times, even if she turned out to be a racist, homophobic, bitchy gossip who doesn't do her washing up before she goes to bed, never took her turn on the PTA cake stall AND never puts her bins out without a neighbour reminding her.....she has managed to turn up with no issues raised for 3 decades to work like a dog doing nights as a state sponsored grown up for the drunk, abusive, violent, broken, demented and infectiously ill. She deserves a fair hearing to find out what on earth went so wrong here.

And even if she was a criminal, who stole the church silver and pick pocketed on tube trains every weekend. Even if she was a convicted killer. She is still absolutely within her rights to expect and receive privacy from males when in a state of vulnerability and undress.

I didn't understand this either.

I use England nhs mail and it keeps deleted emails basically indefinitely until you run out of storage. Which for me is about twice a year.

Even when you delete an email, you have to delete them a second time to get them out of the storage.

I've got emails I've kept for years.

I can't believe NHS Scotland has such a radically different system.

Is Angela Glancey up tomorrow? Should be interesting.

Oooh, you're late to the party. Sorry, you've missed all the cake (recipes).

Here's an idea - I quoted what I thought were stand-out bits of today's testimony as we went along, so if you click on the three dots above right, select 'see all', it might give you a bit of a flavour of things as they happened?
No idea how many posts I did so that might not be a shortcut at all!

I had the impression earlier that witnesses got to see the bundle in advance - is that not so?

That seems very unlikely. Given the prohibition on them watching or reading about proceedings until they've finished giving evidence, it wouldn't make sense to show them everyone else's statements.

It was very very clever of NC.

Rhianna has given a statement to AG disputing DUs account.

NC found evidence of KS being invited to meetings which would have meant she knew this.

KS says she can’t recall.

NC tried to get her to admit she meant with Rhianna AFTER that statement was given.

Which would mean witness tampering.

KS can’t recall when, no idea of time of year.

This was the very clever bit. KS has has to admit talking to R — how else would she know that she was wanting to be ‘kept out of it’.

She hasn’t clocked until NC questioning that this was going to land her in it. She can’t deny having the meeting.

KS getting upset again.

JR intervenes. J says I think we have got as far as we are going to get with this.

NC persists.

BOOM. KS hadn’t know R statement was in evidence in the bundle.

Realised it is very odd of witness to suddenly be concerned of SP racism after statement which was clear and contradicted BU so has to admit her meeting was after.

NC puts it to her that she was, my rephrasing and interpretation, trying to either get R to change her testimony to support BU or agree SP racist so she is concerned. R saying she wanted nothing to do with process could mean she want going to do what KS demanded of her.

Obviously JR hasn’t called her as R testimony undermined DU narrative.

KS admits in hindsight she shouldn’t have made it up met with R.

😮

My secondary school taught us to touch type too, happy memories of being in the typing pool at the top of the school! It's the skill that has been most useful to me throughout my professional life.

This is interesting email copies from bundle re tomorrow’s HR witness:

https://x.com/lesbianpersist/status/1948073440239395069?s=46&t=OcVj6Ek4vpx69DdiZCpI2g

I did it as an optional lunchtime thing at school when I was about 12, and it has stood me in very good stead ever since, as I do a lot of writing in my job.

Photo of email

That is interesting! EC (Emergency Care?) suspending people right left and centre against HR advice.

So basically the HR Department is concerned that A+E has gone rogue and is suspending staff all over the shop

And why exactly do NHS Fife think this witness is going to be helpful to their case?

Oh wow! Goodness!

Anyway...

Can it be...that NHS Fife have...A COMPETENT HR SECTION???

Same.

I was nearly shafted over an increment and mat leave disagreement.

Turned out I could lay my hands very quickly on an email from many years before that showed I had asked the very specific question that sorted the whole thing out.

I was surprised but pleased. Higher ups were v surprised and less excited to find nothing ever actually goes anywhere and can always be found.

Listening to my mother's advice when I was 16 means I can type posts fast on this thread - which is useful!
Somebody upthread said that although the typing has stayed useful, she has forgotten her shorthand - me too, and I used to be ace at it. 😒

Thanks for sharing that. Wow! I assume 'ECD' in that refers to Emergency Care Department?

I missed the tail end of this afternoon, does anyone know who is listed for tomorrow? And I assume back to the regular 10am start?

OMG 🤣🤣🤣🤣

"I heard loud and clear the issue was sharing the changing room."

Exactly! Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

KS is so far down the rabbit hole that she’s prepared to throw anyone and everyone under the bus in order to support DU. We will probably never know the reasons for her zealotry, but it is clear that she has abandoned all rationality and even any sense of self preservation. She sadly won’t be the last woman to throw herself into the bin fire that is GI.