NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

Thank you to all who replied with the information about stenography. Genuinely very interesting.

Even bolder because LM's evidence appeared to be some of the most solid, balanced and reliable stuff we have heard so far. Calling LM into question doesn't look good for KS here after giving such slippery answers on all sorts of other things...

Either SP wins on some or all of her claims and is awarded compensation, or she loses all claims and walks away with nothing (although I would expect an appeal if that happens).

Absolutely. Even if sandie wins this i see no way she could return to work at that particular hospital. Its toxic and hostile and there are a few members of staff who should be facing their own disciplinary actions. I doubt that will happen.

This case shows the very worst of the NHS.

I'm struggling to imagine a woman referring to her "big girl pants" IN A COURTROOM.

Well, I wouldn't do it, personally.

Hmmmm not so sure LM didn't make any written note that she told a colleague they would be complicit. That's something you need to jot a short email to yourself about.

If you mean the homophobia and racism gossip, I think it will be disregarded, because she hasn't been reported or investigated for that in the 30 years she's been a nurse, they've produced no evidence for it, and it's not the reason she was suspended, investigated and possibly discriminated against. It has nothing to do with the tribunal.

I wish there was a way to get to the bottom of where the 'racist' accusation started, but it's not in the scope of this tribunal. So far it seems that everyone heard it from someone else, mostly involved in the case, but can't pinpoint who. Very frustrating

I don't own any big girl pants are they compulsory in being a woman nowadays? If so grateful for recommendations.

The other steno-related tit bit for the romantically-minded amongst you.

Legend has it that the Piper Alpha Enquiry went on for so long that it allowed one of the lead counsels and the enquiry stenographer to meet for the first time, fall in love, get married and have a baby before it was concluded.

No, it's fine, you just can't do live reportage while it's happening.

Yep. At this point, with all the lies and collusion revealed, I think I would be saying I couldn't reasonably be expected to come back to work since I couldn't trust them not to just come up with new made up charges against me.

Wow. What an afternoon.

Regarding KS tears, as a TT reader they seemed to come out of nowhere. I can only agree with a PP who suggested it was the unconscious cognitive dissonance forcing her brain to try and reconcile the facts with her beliefs.

Compared to, for example, Jo Phoenix being very distressed as she gave evidence in her tribunal. Because not only was her evidence upsetting, it was triggering memories of when she was raped as a young woman and not believed and having to giving evidence in that case. A double whammy of emotions to deal with in a stressful situation. She was incredibly brave, especially as the OU barrister had very little compassion when questioning. So I did laugh at JR’s barb at NC’s people skills! Pure court drama.

I think that's the tears catalyst, she's realised this could be very very bad for her career.
All these doctors who have problems with sex, not knowing their own sex etc, do we know where they trained? They're bringing the whole profession into disrepute including their alma maters.

As others have made clear and NC reads out in court, Rhianna gave a witness statement to AG as part of the internal I/x. In it she disputed DU account.

KS, in her testimony this afternoon, revealed that she had attempted to tamper with this witness and NC puts to KS that she was horrified when NC brought up R’s name because it would reveal KS’a lies.

KS eventually agreed it was not appropriate of her to have sought out Rhianna.

it is clear that KS had sought out Rhianna without knowing she had given a statement that will be in the bundle, told her SP is racist and stirred up coals that were not there previously.

KS is shocked to discover there is existing evidence of Rhianna’s account which disputes DUs account.

JR didn’t call Rhianna because her account disputes DUs

KS has been messing with all aspects to ensure support of DU.

That is also my recollection from Part 1. I though it was Esther Davidson who provided that information but I'm not 100% on that sorry

I'm sure someone has said this already, in the X billion pages of comments, but anyway...

What is with all the reference to "sobbing" and "distress", as though that has relevance to anything? I am not a sobber, and rarely cry at anything, certainly not work shite. IMO it's pretty unprofessional actually to sob at work, unless someone is dead. On the other hand, I might swear and rant - this would also be unprofessional, and in order to avoid swearing and ranting in a difficult situation I tend not to say anything, and prepare in my head a better response to use later.

Yet certain people in the tribunal, and on this thread (not naming names but I'm sure you know who) seem to think that DU's sobbing proves that he's the victim here.

Incidentally, I've also seen news reports saying that SP was in fact distressed and expressed this out of work. So a) perhaps she was distressed after all, b) maybe she is too professional to show it in work, or c) no-one knew she was distressed because no bugger actually talked to her about it.

Yes and NC quotes from the witness statement Rhianna gave to AG which disputes DUs account version.

But if Fife staff are shown to have acted on/been influenced by the gossip, that's evidence they've strayed from process- supporting Sandie's claims.

Honestly, it just sounds like an absolutely horrible place to work. The backstabbing, the gossiping, the evil cabal of tittletattlers, the fact that nothing is documented properly, the outright fawning over the chosen ones (and just, why?) and the disregarding of the ones just actually getting on with their jobs.

As well as the fact that key members of staff are either happy to lie about reality under oath or they actually genuinely believe nonsense like 'it's impossible to correctly sex newborn infants' means that public trust in NHS Fife (and the medical profession itself) cannot be high.

NC to Kate Searle:(from TT)
“did you then confess to AG you left confidentiality in ruins”.

Naomi, I salute you, you fucking legend.

In that one question, she’s absolutely destroyed KS.

That's rather lovely

It would appear that NC believes the tears are a shock response to her bringing up Rhianna. KS believed she had made sure Rhianna’s account could not be included — being unaware that R had given a witness statement as part of the I/x that was in the bundle.

NC puts it to KS that she was horrified when NC mentioned her.

Just off to read the BBC coverage of this afternoon's events. Back in a bit...

The sobbing really annoys me as I am a sobber and in 20+ years of working for the NHS no one has ever cared about it. In fact the reverse, it's been used to argue I'm not competent to do the job.

Clearly the wrong sort of woman.