NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

No, it's nothing like a normal typewriter/computer keyboard. More like a tiny piano, IIRC, and you press multiple keys at a time.

Perfick! Thank you!!

Well wims, that was a whirlwind! Thanks to you all for the updates, can't quite believe some of it!

That was exhausting! And that's just me keeping up on this thread. I need to step away for the evening.

I understand the pure batshittery of all these NHS senior staff is useful to have in the public domain. But I really feel sorry for the stress this tribunal is putting on all those involved- especially Sandie, having her reputation shredded by vague allegations by senior fruitcake colleagues. Especially when the Workplace Regulations are not optional for employers and the SC judgement is so clear...

But all this is just because of the cruel boundary breaking/ fantasies/ refusal to respect female human rights to privacy, dignity and safety in their own changing room by one obnoxious man....

The same key makes multiple letters depending which others are pressed at the same time. Labelling would be impossible.

Anyone know about Ann Hamilton, one of tomorrow's witnesses? It seems she might be a local VAWG campaigner who is supportive of Sandie. So I'm not sure how she fits into JR's plan.

This made me larf.

Subtext: it’s all Sandie’s fault that I’m sitting here looking like an idiot and refusal to accept it’s the fault of Dr U / NHS Fife.

Tears stemming from narcissistic rage at idiocy re not knowing what sex anyone has including her own being made public.

It’s clear that GI is utterly embedded throughout healthcare but I’m still bewildered about how this cognitive dissonance is actively embraced other than doctors think of themselves as kind and kindness (to men) is embracing GI?

It sounds like an enigma machine.

Sorry for a very late in the day question and I feel a bit stupid asking this despite following these threads but what can the final outcome be from this?

You what? Did KS say this? I've only been skim-reading the thread, but still ...

It's verging on "DU is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life." This gets ever more surreal. 😵‍💫

Was it me or were there lots of slippery half answers?

At this question about whether she knew SP had been cleared of misconduct, it was useful to contrast KS' very sure evidence of SP's guilt based on DU description. So I had wondered why NC hadn't asked KS - if the board don't think there is any evidence, then why do you think otherwise?

Also another item about meetings with LM and KS saying she didn't recall any "formal" conversations with her. I had wanted NC to ask KS if there had been another other conversations?

Other incidences of this throughout but I can't remember specifics now. But the way KS answered left a lot of gaps.

Judge's questions were good. He asked a lot of clarifications.
Does the 3rd panel member ever speak?

It’s not possible to be kind and compassionate and force unwilling nurses to change with you…

KS getting the last smug self-serving comment in at the end really really really infuriated me😡

loved Naomi for her piety comment. Self serving egotistical ‘activists’ with their heads up in the clouds unable to see the reality and calamity of their actions

Ah, I've answered my own question. A different Ann (without an e) who is an HR person at Fife.

For the people who watched this, now that it's finished do you think KS came off like she was bullshitting?

I hoping that the judge just disregards everything where there is no evidence, I hope that’s how it works. They might feel smug with their alluding to things and gossip but really should be meaningless.

Sandie's Tribunal "Says whilst i find o conclusive evidence, satisfied caused distress, as a RN would expect for you to deescalate and suggest training which should be submitted to RNC for revalidation".

Oh great Sandie is responsible for Dr. Upton's feelings again. Classic misogyny.

I suspect as a veteran A&E nurse she knows how to deescalate 🙄she also said Dr. Upton showed no signs of upset in this short convo.

I’m not sure if we’re allowed to talk about what we have witnessed with the live viewing. Just what TT etc. have published.

@UpDo Undoubtedly, she was very shifty and seems to have memory problems.

It almost feels that some staff, KS included, are so furious that Sandie was cleared of wrongdoing that they are just going to keep hurling shit at her like gibbons in a zoo, knowing the bbc/guardian will report it. So they get their win one way or another.

It's disgusting.

I'm not observing, just following here and TT.

No true Scots person assigned male at birth.