NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

Alex Baldwin in Malice

I could probably pull the pair of pants I'm wearing up to about my armpits so they're big woman pants I suppose.

(I do have nice pants too!)

No, I think it's you who has misunderstood. The poster you quoted clearly understands this, but the point she is making is that it's not unheard of to type 'Re:'. It might be unusual, but it's not unheard of, and I think @Manxexile is quite right to say it would be foolish to assume it means it's definitely a reply. For example, if I bumped into someone in the corridor and had a discussion about a work issue, I could theoretically then email them half an hour later with the subject 'Re: corridor discussion' and a response.

It will be disregarded by the judge, but seized upon and repeated ad nauseam by TRAs.

JR has flung around so many smears and allegations against SP which SP has already been cleared of, and which JR must know the judge and panel will disregard, that a cynic might think that she was supplying a receptive audience with ammo to be used against SP and her monstrous regiment of terfs.

Of course only a cynic would think that😏

Judge not accepting that TW are men: Grounds for an appeal?

KS's evidence on RE:

NC The way this is presented with nothing but yr signature and nothing below, gives the impression yr email of 12 Jan was the start of an email chain?
KS Yes
NC Do you normally write Re: in a subject line?
No
NC Do u ever?
I dont know

Dr Searle, finally off the big seat, gets to her car and sighs in relief. What a fuckin day.

She texts Dr Upton

Hi Beth just checking in, hope you're doing OK. I'm just finished in court, it was horrendous but I wouldn't let them say a bad word about you. I might be in a bit of trouble but I'm sure The Board will look after that for me. Anyway, let me know when you get this, let's catch up. K

Sorry new phone (long story) who dis?

NC asks KS if she was told to stop that email thread to all & sundry, and asks if she faced disciplinary action for blowing up confidentiality.

A genius question: answer Yes & lose even more credibility. Answer No and show how appalling the employer’s lack of fair process is.

Any reasonable employer should have disciplined a manager who did what KS did, and at the very least told her to shut down that email thread. At my previous workplaces this kind of email would have been shut down by HR with extreme prejudice & all recipients told under no circumstances was anyone to forward it on etc.

Brilliant. Absolutely spot-on. The only likely thing you missed was a line of kisses after the name... xxxxx

I am absolutely convinced that KS has form in rewriting conflict narratives to suit her own agenda but has done so from the very privileged position of being a senior consultant. She didn’t expect that ET to expose her in this way, clearly.

Also, re JR reading the findings of the internal I/x — isn’t that game a bogey now given the failures of procedure?

It will be easy for NC to establish, I imagine, that the comments were all about saving face as to do anything else would mean an admission of liability for the cruel and discriminatory treatment of SP.

Why does the nurse rather than the doctor have a responsibility to deescalate? The changing rooms being for female nurses after all.

Oh Bez - I thought I'd never smile again ...well not for a bit anyway, I'm so furious with that parting shot by KS.

But then: who dis?😂😂😂

She's serving her audience the nastiness they want.

She's also an intolerant bigot of course.

This is exactly what I thought watching it as it happened. It seemed as though she knew she had taken a risk, and it was the one solid (untruthful) deflection that she could bring and even get #BeKind points for protecting the identity of the witness.

And then suddenly the game was up and there was that flick of the switch, and that extraordinary breaking down, sobbing and being led out.

I was so glad NC was having none of it. NC isn't shouty anyway so it was just a continuation of hard truths presented in a dispassionate way.

I suspect that Kate Searle knows full well she has done wrong, and probably a great deal more than she admitted, but she probably believed she was doing wrong for the right reason, which in her mind made it OK. She is the last person on earth I would want as a doctor.

Because she's a woman, and they know, deep down, which one is the woman.

Does KS have a trans child by any chance? Only possible reason I can think of for her actions.

Oh I missed KS's nasty parting shot. Can anyone enlighten me?

Going back loads of pages, @BezMills, you've made me think of when I used to have to pour 80/- shandies in one of the bars I worked at.

Pain in the arse. Wouldn't settle properly so you'd end up messing about for ages trying to get the proportions back to where they should be.

Slightly less of a pain was making long vodkas though I used to hate doing those on busy nights.

Interesting.
KS said that she "recalled LM being in the department" but not "formal conversations".
That made me think that there could have been a convo between them which KS didn't think was "formal"? Maybe she thought they were in "avoid foot in mouth" territory and was swapping gossip?
LM was one of only a few people who knew about SP's solicitor's letter and a possible ET so she would have had a very different memory of all that?
Otherwise I can't see why it is in KS' interests to lie about it - so I'm erring towards thinking she forgot.
LM seemed like an astute political operator, so I can't see her writing anything down that she didnt 100% have to!
Unlike KS who someone on here described as a bull-in-a-china shop, which seems apt as she was speaking to everyone and firing off emails to all and sundry. Other colleagues were sensible enough to ignore them and avoid getting pulled into the drama

Yes, KS claims there's an anonymous witness who is too scared to get involved or give evidence because of SP's racism and having to work with her afterwards.

NC is like ''oh Rhianna? She was the witness, we already know about her, she gave a statement contradicting DU's version of events''.

KS bursts into tears and NC suggests that's because she didn't know they already knew about R, and KS may have been putting words into her mouth thinking it wouldn't be found out because 'anonymous' so can't be verified.

Awkward.

I really don’t see how it can ever be possible for Sandie to return to work in an environment which has been so thoroughly poisoned by spiteful managers evidently deliberately spreading malicious rumours that she is a racist & homophobe. Really hope the judge awards a massive payment for loss of future earnings.

No,but they do have to walk them to their car.

Will this be in the bundle of docs the Judge considers?

I think it's best not to discuss this.

Rewriting the past is a big thing with narcissists, as anyone who has been in a relationship with one will know.
I didn't say that - you must have misheard me - what do you take me for - I'd never say anything awful like that

The existence of some sort of proof - 'contemporaneous notes' are unlikely to be taken in a private conversation, but maybe a text or an email - is only a speedbump in the road, they too can be explained away, so the narcissist is inevitably and eternally in the right.

DrU has already shown signs of narcissism, maybe that's why him and KS are such good buddies...

Sorry, were such good buddies, as Bez suggests😁