NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

You can't. People had to apply to the court.

Well, today was certainly quite the rollercoaster.

So it'll be about 11:30am then

Was it a steno or palantype system they were using (if you know the difference)?

In my experience, palantype is noiser than steno. <expects some irate palantypist to join thread to thump me>

TT's part two of the afternoon tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1948004184009359750.html

Do you think this was a good day for SP? KS is such a snake im just not sure..

Hi @NeatOchreShark · Following your post below, I don't know of any groups for siblings of trans identified men but you might find it interesting to look at www.childrenoftransitioners.org/
-it's written by adults whose dads say they are women, and they write about some of the challenges.

Today 16:19

Just want to say,I’m not a mum, but since my older brother came out as a TiM (I’m in my early 20s) I’ve had to really self censor about this kind of thing as my mum is v much on the side of him instead of me. Been lurking on here for days and it’s been therapeutic seeing mums talk openly and honestly about this tribunal. Thank you🩷

JR asks for KS's thoughts on the enq conclusion:

KS - reflects what I said about taking through proper channels
J R- we're done

That seems totally unjust! Why couldn't NC come back in to make the point that there was NO EVIDENCE to support any of the allegations against SP.

The day ends with KS being smarmy and smug and 'there, I told you so'😡

V V off topic but is this what Snotface does in Drop Dead Fred? Before she's fired?

BU’s demeanour in the box was confrontational and trolling I recall (my Big Girl Pants anyone?), I’m not sure JR’s depiction will stick.

If I was the person at NHS Fife who said ‘I don’t want to be dragged into this’ I would be straight into HR making a formal complaint about this evil cabal.

@Butchyrestingface It's a convenient way of dispelling the concern that transwomen can pose a risk to women. Someone who is a risk isn't a transwoman basically be definition.

If course in some situations someone could be pretending to be a woman just to get into a woman's space. But as no burglar walks round all the time in full burglar kit, no fake is going to be bothered "living as a transwomen as IB did.

I don't like that some journalists use preferred pronouns except in the case of crimes as it supports an implicit assumption that they aren't really transwomen just pretending.

Yes, same here.

Well. That was quite something.

Anyone seen the 'steno mask' they use in the US? The court reporter talks into what looks like a black sink plunger.

BU was v arsey in the box

As an observer to the live proceedings I can say that C Elves behaviour looked the kindest of the people I saw as they left. The others I saw were JR and KS.

i think KS got off lightly tbh..

Ditto - despite taking "an academic route" at school, we were all (girl's grammar school) given the opportunity to take the typing and shorthand course as an extra in 6th form - so I did.

Little did we know back in 1972 that our professional working lives would be so dominated by keyboards - and that being able to touch type was a huge plus. Soon forgot the shorthand though.

If you can't access Nitter (it's actually a Nitter instance you can't access), there are a number of other ways (ie instances) of Nitter to use:

https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/wiki/Instances

Yes, they were using it at the daybell trial in Arizona and I wondered wtf it was at first!

I need a lie doon. Wtaf.

The Fife team missed a trick by not hiring that bloke off Channel 4 to type on the steno machine using "her" penis.

Yes, a lot of the steno schools in the US are moving towards that now. There's a really high rate of attrition for machine stenography students in the US court reporting schools apparently (I've seen figures of over 90%).

The mask is also popular in Europe for on-site stenos working with deaf/hard of hearing people in community settings. Not in the UK as yet although it's used for TV broadcasting work here, and called 'respeaking'. They use respeakers for the news programmes here.

I need to go and buy tunnocks teacakes to help me get over the wailing as KS realised Rhianna's evidence was being brought in to the tribunal. Thanks everyone!

Same. I'd be utterly furious.