NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

I thought JR said she'd be relatively quick. She seems to have settled in for the night.

Not a stenographer, but my understanding is that, unlike a typewriter, you are inputting sounds rather than letters. The sounds may be made by pressing multiple keys so that you can input syllables, words and phrases with a single motion. This allows stenographers to achieve speeds of 200+ words per minute - much faster than is possible with a conventional typewriter. If you are looking at the keys, you won't achieve that kind of speed.

OMG JRs supercilious tone reading the outcome of the investigation.

How can they believe this man was intimidated by a shorter much weaker 50 year old colleague 😑

Sad! Seems like an excellent job. I wonder whether court illustrators will be replaced or whether legally they can't be, because of rules around photos.

Hallelujah. She's done

How does she know. this..she's not an expert, you know!

JR BROUGHT THE REFLECTIVE DISCUSSION IN

THIS WILL RUN AND RUN

Yep she's going over all the nasty stuff about Bryson, confrontational, alone in CR etc etc.
It doesn't seem right, given that it has been denied, and apparently disproven, previously. But IANAL..

10 am start tomoz

Poor Sandy. In the wrong when she leaves the CR. In the wrong when she doesn’t leave the CR…

Back tomorrow at 10 with Angela glancey.

Hahaha, I was wondering if JR would try to repair the damage done by KS's "you can't prove it" challenge to NC but JR wisely thought bringing that up would involve too much risk and too much sunlight.

They're in the room. Last week the seating had to be rearranged because the noise of their keys was drowning out the witnesses.

PMK but I can't keep up at all.

Bloody hell. JR sticking the knife in now re the outcome of the disciplinary and reflective discussion.

Apart from being" kind and honest" she seems to be "upset and shaken" for most of the rest of the time.

JR now reading the result of the Fife enq, SP caused distress, should have de-escalated etc

From TT

KS other possibilities confusion over chromasomes
KS - not a geneticist - XXY, XYY (cross talk)

JR - asked about Pete with menacing behaviour. How would you describe DU behaviour
KS - kind and compassionate, never experienced anything but kind and compassion to patients and colleagues
JR - page - DU contemporaneous note at Xmas, comment about prisons
KS - how she was alluded to as being sim. to isla bryson rapist in F prison
JR - 270-1 - DU email to you Xmas 217am qu about SP being aggressive and confrontational, 272 talks about disc with Elspeth about safety at work, whole thing left me upset and shaken. ???
KS - she described how it occured, felt threatened, SP would normally leave, waited and approached, words used were said in manner percieved to be aggressive. Obvs confrontational as alone in CR
JR - additional docs bundle 1703 - won't have seen, this is outcome of conduct hearing. Says whilst i find o conclusive evidence, satisfied caused distress, as a RN would expect for you to deescalate and suggest training which should be submitted to RNC for revalidation

Page 1666 seems to have been included in error. It's visible for a couple seconds as JR leafs forward to find 1703.

The Three Laws of NHS Fife Boardotics

1. Abdy must not harm The Board, or through inaction, allow The Board to be harmed
2. Abdy must obey the orders of The Board
3. Abdy must protect their own erses, except where this would conflict with Laws Ane or Twa.

He’s as kind as KS, we know she’s kind because she made a point of saying so earlier. My arse.

I'm off on my jollies tomorrow so no remote viewing for me. Relying on your razer sharp analysis and wit for the rest of the week, Wims - don't let me down!!!

Could you tell me where I can watch this trial please ?

Yes. And the fact it tells Sandie that she needs to reflect on the way she brought up the subject with Upton in the changing room.. And that it will be included in her next NMC revalidation..

Suggesting that Sandie was still in the wrong? Although she was cleared?

Edit. Typo

From TT

JR - more thoughts?
KS - reflects what I said about taking through proper channels
J - we're done
JR - two witnesses tomorrow Angela Glancy and Ann Hamilton.
RISE

The Ring comes to life. The green lights fade to black. Now the lilac fade too. A band of light appears all round, pale pink. Music seems to come from hidden speakers. Not tinny, big bass cabs. People look round, what the hell.

Lasers emanate from point sources all round the diameter. Maybe 32 of them. Invisible machines go off. Where the fuck did they come from? The lasers paint the clouds. It wasn't det cord The Fifer smelt, it was heavy cored Speaker Cable.

THIS TUNE DROPS

NC pretends to be surprised, she appears to be trying not to dance in her seat. JR sits dumbfounded. Dr Searle has frozen in disbelief. Wee Sondie and her supporters are smirking. Were they in on this?

This can't actually be happening. What the actual unexpectedly strong disco biscuit double drop is this?

Jim the clerk, the one who has been running the slightly illegal Court Bingo game has started gurning. Clearly having flashbacks to a wooshty Mitsubishi. He almost starts Big Fish Little Fish but at a glance from Big Sond, freezes and puts his hands back in their pockets. One of the stenographers is reaching for the lasers, under the stern gaze of big Sond, pretends she is stretching her fingers. She's had a shift to be fair.

The court is in uproar. It's like the FUBAR in 1992. Nobody knows what is happening. Big Sond's jaw is hanging off his face, for once he's just at a loss.

NC raises a hand, as if to scratch her noise, and all music, all lasers, all the smoke is gone. A collective hallucination? Multi-person mental projection. Just what the hell did that ring do?

Or is it just her new Fitbit after all.

NC stands, smooths her work jaicket, there is a thin smile, and did she just bow to Wee Sondie's corner of the court?

On the curious case of the vanishing witness, the tribunal should ignore anything KS claims a witness would say when that witness has not been called to give evidence. However, if I've understood correctly, it appears the witness has been identified and gave evidence to Fife's investigation which was contrary to what KS claimed their evidence would be.