NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

One reason an otherwise intelligent adult might go through a phase of obsessively promoting another person, supporting their unsupportable actions, doing all they can to keep them safe and close, is because they are in love. A notoriously irrational state of mind, that can take people unawares and be as hard to swim clear of as a rip tide. I do wonder.

What even the old lady that called him son?

Lots of free resources online for a budding stenographer. Lots of homemade steno's can be found on etsy too.

From TT

J - did you say anything could be construed as approval
KS - agreed with DU, she said she'd used it in other jobs and there had been no (issues).
J - when searching emails, you said you searched your emails -sent or recieved?
KS - all boxes
J - if it had been deleted part of that search?
KS - not necessarily, emails are deleted automatically
J - how often
KS after 30 days I think
J - ??
KS - may not have typed in names, on second request were given lots of names to search. Lot of staff and so there's a long list of emails if you just type name
J - that's it

JR - a few, will get through quickly. Were taken to 5th Jan email from MC. Asked a v long qu yesterday. so you can respond to all of the qu's in it. Live investigation, ED a few days earlier and until Feb, ED can't do it as involved with SP
KS - agree
JR - seems to setting up a group intentionally
KS - disagree

Fifer : is JR sticking the bit intae Dr Searle an a? Ye have tae remember, JR works for The Board. The Board deh gie a fuck aboot ony ae the staff. Only The Board. If Searle is catchin the 37 heid first, so be it.

JR - readsinfo must not be shared outside group, says that
KS - agree
JR - suggested yesterday you acquiesced to DU to use F CR, address that.
KS - that I gave in?
JR - yes
KS - i disagree with that
JR - yesterday asked qu's on bio sex - meaningful and implications - agree?
KS - yes
JR - relevant to puberty
KS - yess
JR - response to drugs
KS - yes
JR and what is bio sex
KS - what is assigned to you at birth (missed...)
JR - what are the /?
KS - other possibilities

touch typists don't look at the keys anyway. I know. I took my mam's advice after I left school that typing would always stand me in good stead

Ohhhh...beth is so kind and compassionate... So kind.

Apart from when skulking around taking notes, making shit up about people and invading women's spaces

NHS Fife Mean Girl team has told so many fibs they can’t remember who said what to whom.

Each key means multiple things, and pressing multiple keys at the same time means even more things so labels would be bigger than the keys.

That is pretty much what the courts in England and Wales now do.

However, there are situations where a hearing might want to know EXACTLY what was said by one party five minutes earlier. The stenographer can read it straight off their script.

Stenography is far more expensive than recordings and then using typists or AI to type it up later. But it's likely to be more accurate and having seen a court transcript which produced from a recording fairly recently, it was absolutely horrible and difficult to read.

That's like saying Beetlejuice 3 times to the derailer....

He hasn't made a decision. he is acknowledging that JR has indicated she has legal submissions to make about what the SC ruling means, and he has not yet heard those (or NC's) submissions so that matter is still a contentious one for the purposes of this tribunal.

It would be an appealable matter if he did not allow JR to make those submissions on the law.

"DU is so kind and compassionate to everyone in the world"

JR did intentionally put it to her so she could go off piste about 'ooh it's complicated - XXY X etc'

Still only 2 sexes though.

In the same way that a middle aged nurse with a 30 year career is full of hatred.

Easy solution - don't watch it! If you don't like seeing justice in progress.

Funny because it makes me think of playground squabbles. It's in a limp bizkit song (it's stuck in my head today)! - It's common parlance. Specifically for verbal squabbles, or something that has no evidence beyond verbal accusations, in my mind.

See also: "woman"

Me too! And it did stand me in good stead 👍

KS - not a geneticist - XXY, XYY

no, just a <checks notes> medical doctor!

JR - asked about Pete with menacing behaviour. How would you describe DU behaviour

If I recall rightly, Pete's behaviour wasn't menacing, it was his presence that was the problem.

The damage is done JR. There is no saving KS reputation now

Tbf she did say that there are more than two chromosomal presentations. That doesn't mean there are more than two sexes.

With steno though, they depress multiple keys simultaneously to form a chord or whole word.

It's completely different to normal typing, more like playing a piano actually. Some of the stenos I've known say they were actually shite QWERTY typists.

KS taking every opportunity to paint SP as aggressive and confrontational.

I think the court stenographer machines are phonic so no single letter, but keys (and key combinations) type the sound. Like typed shorthand.

Or being blackmailed. There were plenty of skeletons in closets at hospitals I worked at.
Some staff members were thought to be untouchable because they had dirt.