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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

1000 replies

nauticant · 23/07/2025 14:23

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
Mmmnotsure · 23/07/2025 15:48

Out latest witness:
Kate "In Hindsight" Searle

RabbitFurCoat · 23/07/2025 15:48

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/07/2025 15:44

"Positively ingratiating"

✨✨✨ I'm saving quotes to embroider at this point

MarieDeGournay · 23/07/2025 15:48

NC - abandon a patient, career ending
KS - yes
NC - if someone sees this, they themselves as CM said to you, are culpable
KS - CM hasn't spoken to me about this
NC - CM has said when you spoke to her about it she said to you you would be
KS - don't recall conv

anyolddinosaur · 23/07/2025 15:49

Dr Surinder Panpher is the name NC gives.

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 23/07/2025 15:49

This is bonkers.

Redrosesposies · 23/07/2025 15:49

Nachoinseachthu · 23/07/2025 15:13

Re: Pete the Plumber. Dr Kathleen Stock once said that the whole trans rights debate only really affected women that didn’t pass, bc TW who do pass get to move through the world exactly as they please. But that’s one of the things that strikes me as so cruel about GI - the stark inequality between TW who pass, and those who don’t. It’s unjust that appearance can make such a difference; and yet it does.

It’s conceivable that there’s one or more other TW quietly working away in NHS Fife - in fact, given the numbers, it’s likely even - and not one of the dramatics personae involved in this case is aware of that fact.

If there are, they are not using the women's changing room.

Boiledbeetle · 23/07/2025 15:49

After what they put Sandie through this is delicious.

GreenFriedTomato · 23/07/2025 15:50

nauticant · 23/07/2025 15:47

KS now saying LM's evidence untrue.

That's a bold move.

And this is why it's so important to put everything in writing. LM said she spoke to KS about the non reporting of alleged incidents. Due to it being a verbal conversation KS can deny it.

Document EVERYTHING!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/07/2025 15:50

Waitwhat23 · 23/07/2025 14:45

Comment from FWS on Twitter regarding JR's comment about EQA2010/SC judgement -

'Our ruling is not a hypothesis or contentious. It's straightforward. Upton is legally and biologically a man. It isn't for Jane Russell to relitigate this at a tribunal.'

From -

https://x.com/ForWomenScot/status/1948014896139956437

She’s playing to the gallery, I think. She’s following the Maugham line.

MarieDeGournay · 23/07/2025 15:50

KS isn't recalling the convos with CM that a lot of us felt made CM look like she was somewhat better than the rest of them.

A literal she said/she said situation.

Extravirginolive · 23/07/2025 15:50

NebulousDog · 23/07/2025 15:22

Do you think somebody has had the sense to arrange for some sort of counsellor to let her “decompress” after giving evidence? It is all very public and the Fife circles in which she moves are probably not that huge.

I’ve probably used the wrong words, but there are A LOT of people who have read that email.

She won't know that though.

DrSpartacularsMagnificentOctopus · 23/07/2025 15:50

Fife's case appears to be eating itself.

GreenUp · 23/07/2025 15:51

@BezMills Can you identify the Scottish accent of the lay panel member who sits on the judge’s right (near the stenographer). It’s so lovely and soft.

nauticant · 23/07/2025 15:51

You can see why having a complete transcript is going to be of inestimable value to NC. How large will her closing arguments end up being?

OP posts:
ickky · 23/07/2025 15:51

Boiledbeetle · 23/07/2025 15:49

After what they put Sandie through this is delicious.

Edited

I don't know, I'm finding it a bit uncomfortable. Like watching a shark attack.

Boiledbeetle · 23/07/2025 15:52

ickky · 23/07/2025 15:51

I don't know, I'm finding it a bit uncomfortable. Like watching a shark attack.

True. But I'm on the sharks side this time!

BezMills · 23/07/2025 15:52

From TT

NC - order of priority is surprising, more concerned about SP action to DU rather than abandoning patient care?
KS - in hindsight we didn't necessarily see they were patient safety issues, all together we saw
NC - even in broad terms it says shes so bigotted against DU would abandon a patient, career ending
KS - yes
NC - if someone sees this, they themselves as CM said to you, are culpable
KS - CM hasn't spoken to me about this
NC - CM has said when you spoke to her about it she said to you you would be
KS - don't recall conv
NC - alarming conv, you would remember
KS - yes, it would be alarming in hindsight, gathered incidents look like a trend
NC - weren't reported because they didn't happen
KS - disagree
NC - bringing up with CM to change her mind about SP return to work
KS - do not recall conv of that sort

Fifer : Turns oot Lottie did a lot ae guid work for Wee Sondie the ither day. Pit in a hell ae a shift ken. Ah wonder hoo big Dr Searle's hauns are. She's got a lot ae cans tae carry. Gonnae need mair than a bag for life here. Mair like an IKEA bag she needs, or wee shoppin trolly like ma Gran had. She's been a great neebor tae Dr Upton, nae doobt. She's written a lot ae checks, will they clear in the Big Sond Bank?

ickky · 23/07/2025 15:52

JR complaining about transcript not being shared with her.

nauticant · 23/07/2025 15:53

JR making demands about the transcript. This is rather Little Red Hen of her.

OP posts:
ItisntOver · 23/07/2025 15:53

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/07/2025 15:50

She’s playing to the gallery, I think. She’s following the Maugham line.

No reason for tribunal judge to follow suit unless there is substantial misunderstanding.
Baffled.

Waitwhat23 · 23/07/2025 15:53

From TT -

NC - bringing up with CM to change her mind about SP return to work

So having been told by CM, that she wasn't getting her own way in summarily burning the witch, KS just put a dossier of unreported, hearsay allegations together to push her case.

RedToothBrush · 23/07/2025 15:53

ickky · 23/07/2025 15:51

I don't know, I'm finding it a bit uncomfortable. Like watching a shark attack.

Who put the blood in the water?

OvaHere · 23/07/2025 15:53

Waitwhat23 · 23/07/2025 15:53

From TT -

NC - bringing up with CM to change her mind about SP return to work

So having been told by CM, that she wasn't getting her own way in summarily burning the witch, KS just put a dossier of unreported, hearsay allegations together to push her case.

Looks that way.

ThatCyanCat · 23/07/2025 15:53

ickky · 23/07/2025 15:51

I don't know, I'm finding it a bit uncomfortable. Like watching a shark attack.

Looks to me more like watching Martin Brody.

BezMills · 23/07/2025 15:53

From TT

NC - page? - last page of DU's xmas am email to you, first report. Last para, upset and shaken, not sure I can use changing if she's there. how well did you know SP then?
KS - in passing
NC - no reason you would know shift
KS - right
NC - note of DU in feb about that, said I communicated was not willing work and KS would ...
JR - wasn't aware there was a transcript
J - we've talked about this
JR - not shared with both sides
NC - will share
JR - i need it now
NC - requested and paid for by us, no obligation

Fifer : back in yer box Jack Russell.

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