NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

5 mins break

NC - about that, said I communicated was not willing work and KS would ...
JR - wasn't aware there was a transcript
J - we've talked about this
JR - not shared with both sides NC - will share JR - i need it now
NC - requested and paid for by us, no obligation

document everything, eh?😁

takes one to know one

"Did you confess that you left 'confidentiality' in ruins......"

I know, but I don't think I would watch a public hanging either, I am probably a bit squeamish.

I don't recall = I don't know what to say that doesn't make me sound as guilty as sin

KS added the chum to herself.

Maybe another break while JR & KS read the transcript magnanimously provided by the other side..

Should have paid for one then. NC has kindly said she'll give them a copy anyway even though she doesn't have to. Quite nice of her really.

Is the transcript of the tribunal itself? I'm confused

Yet its the TRAs who accused Gender Realists of gate-keeping, and having very narrow and misogynistic definitions of 'womanhood'.

But the instant a trans woman commits a sex crime, they instantly claim he wasn't a 'genuine' woman and must be a man.

I don't disavow women of my sex class when they commit abhorrent crimes. They're STILL women. It's TRAs who have a purity sniff test for establishing and maintaining one's status as a woman, not us. There's no way they'd argue a woman AFAB at birth who committed a sex crime was no longer a woman and shouldn't be housed on the female estate. They're It's bizarre.

Trying to get away with not outright lying…. Because sex is so complicated, apparently

Hi @Boiledbeetle , pls could you do a picture of a sign that says "Do not engage with the interruptaron", so we can use it later to post "Don't make me tap the sign!" posts where necessary. Many thx.

yep break for 10 mins

If JR wanted the transcript she should have paid for it like the claimant did.

Finally caught up had an afternoon work thing.. did they say the Supreme Court ruling didn’t apply?

They're all gonna feast on each other's bones now.

Every witness before KS threw her under a bus though, didn't they?

I am not saying KS doesn't deserve it, she brought it on herself, just that it is a bit uncomfortable to watch.

Yes, nice people skills there, Naomi😁

From TT

J - if asking questions on it, fair for witness to read it. how long is section?
NC - 6-7 lines
J - fairly long, don't want to waste time
NC - can email everyone
J - solves?
JR - solves immediate prob
J - can email to court, can print for witness and how much longer?
NC - 10 min

Fifer : ahm vicariously exhausted and have michty fear. Imagine being Dr Searle noo. It's like the last 10 minutes. Hoo bad could it be? Affy bad wid be ma guess. NC has played this like an Ibiza DJ set, and she's aboot tae drap ONE MAIR CHOON! She's fiddlin wi the equaliser, ah mean sendin the transcript. We're in the last 32 bar afore it goes BABOOM BOBOOM BOOM

Thank goodness for that - I’m only follow this on TT and MN but my heart is racing - I need a rest (or to scream into a pillow)

Is the transcript of the first session from February or the current one?

@snickersbarchild · Today 13:40

"Latin background here. Always use 're' in its latin sense to mean pertaining to. Not my problem email has come along..."

Apologies as I'm still catching up.

I'm a retired NHS manager and I was totally confused by yesterday's discussion about the significnce of the word "Re" appearing at the beginning of the subject line of an email.

I've always used "Re" to mean something like "in regard to" or "in respect of". I have never understood it to signify that what follows is a reply to something that has gone previously.

And I suspect that I have certainly started off an email chain myself with the word "Re" in the subject header meaning "regarding" etc something without it being a reply to any previous email.

I'd be wary about assuming that an email with the subject heading "Re" necessarily meant that it was a reply to an earlier email.

(NB - I note that Wikipedia in its list of email subject abbreviations says that "Re" can indicate a reply or that it's "about", "concerning" or "regarding".

Strikes me as daft that there should be an email convention dictating that "Re" means a reply whenit can legitimately be employed by users to mean something else. Would make more sense and be unambiguous to use "Reply" rather than "Re" )

Well, if she stopped lying and dissembling, maybe it would get easier.

There has been mention of stenographer's services being paid for by (I'm assuming) Sandie's team for the duration of this part of the tribunal.

I think this may have been prompted by NHS Fife's accusations that TT's tweets were inaccurate.