NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

KS emails: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U2v-CNXvWE_hqbpUQO3PTmjXHbu2pUwj/view

I thought she said proprietary, but could have been piety. But yes autocorrect got me either way!

It's very personal - eg KS's motives eg ingratiating. I'm a bit surprised at this angle..

The page numbers are becoming so familiar its like getting the on next week's episode when you're watching a series!

NC - .. to pass on support. WHoly inappropriate when doing ix?
KS - in hindsight, yes

A sliver of sense from KS

KS has pretty much said "she was guilty but found innocent because it coudn't be proven"

I think She wouldn't believe Sandie was innocent if it was caught on camera

The admission of impropriety by someone on the employers side at an employment tribunal… it’s a bold move Cotton, let’s see how that plays out…

Big porky pie, in my opinion. Not just the obvious that DU is categorically a biological and legal a male, thanks to SC ruling. Even if he had a bit of paper with scribbles on it. KS, in at least one instance, actually referred to him as ‘he’ yesterday. She didn’t make that mistake of referring to SP, or any other woman, as male for a very obvious reason.

NC - this is your invitation to meeting, avoid talking to anyone else, other than rep, take it seriously?
KS - yes
NC - did you then confess to AG you left confidentiatlity in ruins

ouch!

Caught bang to rights - flagrant breach of confidentiality. More than once. KS admits this "with hindsight ".

Of course they know but it's the original lie for which many other lies must be told to protect. Which is why on a stand, under oath, they all fall apart.

NC - sending email, passing message from JD etc
KS - i didn't
NC - did you not understand?
KS - didn't action
NC - talking to witness that upset you a flagrant breech?
KS - in hindsight yes

That would have been the most stellar "Did ye, aye?" in human history

Because it's really making things look as bad as they actually are?

KS seems to be surprised by that fact!

I’m confused about a couple of things here.

Firstly, with regard to the other Nurse (Rihanna? Rahanna?). It seems the NHS are saying she is scared to provide evidence in support of DU as she is likely to be subjected to victimisation by racist SP. But that she did witness what DU said.

However SP had no power in this situation and the NHS has all the power - at this point, SP was abandoned by the NHS, her colleagues, and was being managed out. She was being heavily monitored by the NHS at this point too. Therefore to me I don’t understand their argument- if the other nurse had supported DU, she likely would be supported by the NHS and therefore be protected by them against anything SP could do to her. The NHS could ensure SP and the other Nurse do not work together or that SP has no decision making authority etc with the other nurse. They could have investigated SP for racism and did not etc. If she felt SP was a horrid racist, she wouldn’t hesitate in providing evidence against SP given the precarious position SP was in, the nadir of her career.

It just rings true that it is more likely that the other nurse feels pressured to get involved because a large amount of her management are invested in the outcome of the tribunal and that could make her feel pressured into saying what they want. So she’s being vague with “I don’t recall” as to not be involved and to protect herself against the NHS? Cause again, SP can do nothing to her now. But the NHS still has power over her.

Agreed. I'm sure there would have been introductory discussions when Dr U arrived in the dept setting out his special circumstances.

I can just see KS strutting self-righteously around the hospital, stomping due process into the ground.

I may be a self-appointed Support Wren but can the Fifer please stop with the lasagne analogies!!! I’ll never be able to face a plate of it again 😆

Metadata incoming

NC to KS, in summary:
Are you evil or stupid?

It winds me up that it requires so much work just to bring them back to zero again. Such a waste of energy, time, resources, wonderful minds, and NHS time and resources.

Exactly. Because most non invested people understand at this stage that it means “not thinking a man is actually a woman”