NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

I'm a software engineer of 25 years and not any kind of expert on Microsoft Exchange. However I've been responsible for backing up servers in an earlier life. Based on what little I know, pressing 'delete' on your PC will not remove all traces of an email. It will still be on the server, and even if deleted from the server eventually, will be in the nightly/weekly/monthly backups.

So, if any particular email existed (like maybe the apparently missing first email in the Chain of Love - no charge for the Erasure earworm), it can and should be found, and presented to the tribunal.

Thanks JAB

Did she not justify it by saying they needed to know that Dr U might be upset? (Since he is known to be liable to burst into tears at the drop of a pronoun.) So she could just have said there was an incident that upset Dr U without going into detail or naming SP. No need at all for the level of (one-sided) detail.

I sometimes do this. Either following up on a verbal conversation or if I've been forwarded an email from the orgs public email address for response - I'll start a fresh email with Re: your enquiry to X mail box.

You’re hopeful 😂 I’m going for 12.30 again!

It’s just that from what I know of the difficulties of junior females struggling to have themselves taken seriously by more senior male colleagues, I can’t see any female junior doctor finding it appropriate for her upset to be broadcast around the department. Beth DU, it seems, revelled in being known as a delicate flower. Most women work hard to avoid anything that smacks of that label.

That was the worse response she could have given. Bet JR was cross with the ‘you can’t prove it’. It is similar to a naughty Year 9 response - if they say that then I know they are guilty and they are never smart enough to cover their tracks.

I wonder if Ms Searle is even beginning to feel a tiny part of what Sandie went through, a tiny bit of that fear of reputational damage, of bringing her profession into disrepute, of possibly having to answer to the GMC if this is found in Sandie's favour. Maybe even her job being at risk (although let's be honest here it take a hell of a lot to strike a doctor off).

This consultant appears to have a God complex, arrogant, lacking in any wider empathy and believes she is infallible.

Signing in under my new username- thanks to Hettypeg fromthe previous thread.

I predict she'll arrive wearing business attire and a frown.

he's got a nice little raft of potential matters arising:
-unfounded patient safety accusations/attempting to get SP sacked
-admitting intention to not disclose male sex in event of treating female who requested same sex care
-& now he's in the foot & mouth 6:
NC They're the same ppl, except DU was added in in Jan. You can understand why ppl wldnt have wanted this email see the light of day?
KS I cant belive we wld have held back emails

She might as well have got up on the table and done the Can-Can while singing "You're SHIIIIIIT and you know you are"

I'm not an expert on Microsoft Exchange, but I do work for an evil mega corp. Some configurations chosen by IT departments can make it incredibly difficult to restore a single mailbox back to a point in time, as it does make things like document discovery a bit more awkward. Also they do things like make their slack/teams have a default of 2 weeks message lifespan, again, making side channel conversations harder to include in discovery.

That was a new one for me, what a banger. Sidenote: it's not possible to google 'what do Erasure think about gender identity' and get a clear answer. I wonder whether they knew their band name would be so commonly uttered among certain circles on the internet decades later.

I know the bundle isn't available on line but does anyone know its size roughly? Just to get a sense of the amount of info SPs.team have had to digest. With maybe more to come...

Indeed, I'm not exactly a junior female 🙈 but would absolutely hate to be put in that position at work. If there was an issue needing addressed, I'd want it to be done as quietly and involving as few people as possible.

Can't really get my head around this "Shall I let all the consultants know?" "Oh yes please.".

My 10 year old Huskie is going through the menopause, its triggering multiple fantom pregnancies and has made her a whiny bossy moo.

I believe the Post Office have recently come by a lot of experience of restoring and recovering historic emails, under judicial prompting. Maybe they could consult?

Yes but using your example, the response from others replying to you would be “Re:Re your enquiry”. The 2nd “re” is automated, the 1st is what you manually typed. That’s what the person you replied to said too.

Think the Erasure song "Ship of Fools" is more appropriate and I now have that as an earworm!

This consultant appears to have a God complex, arrogant, lacking in any wider empathy and believes she is infallible.

Time for that old joke: Q. What's the difference between God and a Consultant?
A. God doesn't think he's a Consultant.

@billycat321 why does it bother you that there’s a long running thread that you aren’t interested in?

Grr... Lucy Hunter Blackburn mentioned Green Wing on X and now all I am going to be able to imagine is Michelle Gomez (Sue White, the crazy admin lady) whenever there is another discussion about Datix.

(There are loads of clips on YouTube).

I've evolved from sitting down bright-eyed and bushy-tailed at 9.45 quivering with anticipation to - 'It's after 10..meh they never start on time anyway so what's the rush?'

The judge suggested a 11.30 arrival time to KS yesterday, so does that mean it's officially not going to start till then?

Try a seaweed supplement.