NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

This has already happened for Viv Valentine in this case.

KS is expected back on the stand at 11.30

I am going to send another postcard to Sandie while out and about on some errands.

If anyone else wants to send good wishes, the address is:

Nurse Sandie Peggie
A&E Department
Victoria Hospital
Hayfield Road
Kirkcaldy
KY2 5AH.

Quite

But who puts “RE” for regarding into the subject line of an email? Because that entire line is for the purposes of “Regarding”?

Also the auto entry of “Re:” for reply would have been added to further emails - so if KS or whoever did put Re in the subject line for regarding, then ALL other subsequent emails would have had Re:Re surely?

If that’s not the case then I feel that does rather “prove” something odd has happened and worthy of further investigation.

Especially for a client who has maybe now not fully complied with 3 disclosure orders since January? Not a good look

Anyone want to take bets on what time it will actually start? I'm going for 11:50.

I'm imagining the collective eye rolling across the globe that took place on hearing that beauty. Honestly what century is she living in?

Written statements from experts only in Scotland in ETs with cross examination allowed.

Evidence in chief through advocates examination and cross examination.

Quite. The idea of a (real) female junior doctor allowing (“I am sharing this with Beth’s permission”) details of her an episode that upset her to be broadcast by one senior doctor to 19 others is beyond absurd.

It’s yet another example of the behaviour man pretending to be a woman.

11.32 beginning with long gulp of water by KS

I know the bundle isn't available on line but does anyone know its size roughly? Just to get a sense of the amount of info SPs.team have had to digest. With maybe more to come...

Just to be clear, NC doesn't need to prove it. She only needs to convince the tribunal that it is true on the balance of probabilities. My view is that KS saying "you can't prove it" rather than denying it is a strong indicator that it is indeed true and that KS is an unreliable witness.

He will be protecting the board, and acting on their direct instructions. Anybody inside or outside IT that played silly buggers with disclosure will be catching the bus. On the heid.

Especially women whose symptoms and concerns are often dismissed or wrongly dx as anxiety and/or depression and made to feel stupid and time wasting.

Jeepers creepers this is terrifying and yet is kinda happening 😬

It’s amazing it has gone on this long -

More amazing that NHS staff lied and colluded to get a nurse of 30 years driven out of her job because as a victim of sexual abuse by her GP (many years before) she didn’t want to change at work in front of a biological male colleague (no surgery or legal certificate) even if he identified as a women.

ETA - she’s happy to treat trans patients just like anyone else but the NHS defence seems to be entirely that she was a racist, homophobic bigot even though there’s no evidence to support this. Could happen to anyone in the NHS - terrifying

Most of us here are riveted to the Tribunal proceedings because you couldn’t make this up!

She really is. When a witness tries to dodge a question, she doesn't repeat it; she just moves on. It was annoying me at first, but now I think it's really clever. By her not pushing it, the witness thinks they've got away with it, but the panel can see the dodging plain as day. She has no need to hammer home the point when they drop themselves in the shit so readily.

I’m betting it starts at 1pm after an early lunch! Does anyone else wonder if Upton is glued to Tribunal Tweets and thinking “this is not going as I thought”….

I'm popping to the shop for a card today.

Also good morning everyone.

I do use 'Re:' if I am continuing a verbal conversation by email. However, I shall not use the notation of 'Re' with a colon in future as I can see it's ambiguous now.

I agree that a reply to any email sent that has 'Re:' in the subject line will say "Re:Re:...."

I absolutely believe that there is a missing email and I can't wait to see it unearthed.

The fact that this was in an A&E as well just makes it even more batshit. If you've no experience of the back office stuff of an NHS ward maybe the insanity of saying that a doctor could leave a shift early or not come to work, because he was upset, is hard to convey.

NHS wards cannot function like that. Staffing is on a shoe string, you just can't have people going home or not turning up because they're sad. That most likely means a colleague will have to work past their shift, unpaid, to cover. It's why you get staff walking in in the snow if buses are cancelled, or staying several hours after their shift ended, or routinely missing lunch, because the work of the ward has to be done no matter what else is going on and if you don't do your bit others who are just as busy, and have lives like you do, have to do even more to cover you. What Searle put in place for Upton just is not a thing.

And at least if they put that in the byline like they used to do in the days of Ben (Hunte?) then you can be prewarned.

There is a clear message coming from Fife about which "women' warrant super-duper care.

I think he's probably retreated to his "safe" bubble where everyone tells him what he wants to hear. He's not one for facing reality, after all.

I am off to post my first card of thanks and support to SP, luckily had something appropriate in my stash. Thanks for the address @NebulousSupportPostcard

I doubt DU is watching. I suspect he has a group of supporters who are trying to keep his mind off things.

I doubt he’s in a happy place, somehow.

I think Dr U is realising the consequences of his actions now and is probably wishing he had just left well enough alone!