NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #38

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37

and IIRC from yesterday - DU forwarded the chain to his BMA contact so who knows how many people say it

The only thing we know is that SP was not included in their cosy strategy discussions

It will be 6, not 20, based on yesterday afternoon.

Email headers will quickly prove or disprove, but are unlikely to be in the printed bundle.
(Hears being meta data showing each event for a msg, including Date; From:, To: MSGid, the client it came from, what servers it went through.

For anyone interested, a random article abouit headers: www.mailjet.com/blog/deliverability/how-to-read-email-headers/

In Re: I suspect the larger chunk of work in the earlier stages was in a forensic analysis of a very scant initial disclosure, to find clues that would point in the direction of the missing emails.

It is possible that somebody on the inside is tipping them off. They might be GC or just embarrassed at the general level of incompetence and want to help.

Management will already have set the 'Stasi' to search them out.

No, dictionaries are just a bit old-fashioned, should be updated to something more nuanced and exciting probably involving clownfish. It means anyone caught quoting the dictionary is anti-trans.

Maybe KS has been advised to show some humility, she’ll need it once NC has finished with her.

Ha ha ha. KS not smiling quite so much today, is she? 😈

I wish they'd get on with it, I've got to go out for a tit-squishing at 2pm (all female staff last time)

In the meantime, I'm sat at the laptop, ordering unnecessary fripperies.

Re the email discussion (see what I did there) the only thing I'd add to nauticant's excellent explanation is that
the chopped off, seriously embarrassing Fight Club/''need to know' foot in mouth' email was from Maggie Currer (p1253 in the bundle), not ED as someone suggested somewhere way back on the previous thread. And I think the 6 might have become the Secret Seven once DU was copied in. Or maybe it was 5 became 6.

I think. That's what my admittedly incomplete notes say anyway.

The stepdad

https://standrews.anglican.org/the-bishop/

NC has probably thought about that comment overnight. I am prepared to bet that KS’s petulant comment will be repeated in NC summing up ‘so there you go Mr big sondie and the rest of the panel, there is evidence but the NHS Fife Mean Girls gang are hiding it in the boot of Carol Potters car!’

it’s a bit like a school ofsted inspection when our head said to take every unmarked book to our cars now.

ah ok. not 20...just the 6 of them. Colluding and bullying SP.

What an abhorrent and toxic environment SP must have had to work in. That poor woman.

😂 I’d forgotten about this! In my house we still reference ‘pedalstool’ regularly.

Maybe you could drop in that you are following this tribunal and see the reaction?

Obviously once the squashing is over, in case they think you are a bigot and you get extra squashed. 😁

Well nibbled half my tea and its still not started.. whoever said 11.50 was too optimistic 😆

I have some experience of Tribunals (not Employment) as a witness (albeit an expert one, not a "normal" witness).

Tribunals can do and say some very odd things, and see things in strange ways... but overall they are not bad and not stupid.

Pausing to ensure clarity is fine, but if a witness takes ages to answer it looks like they are trying to work out the best answer not the honest one. I hae next to no doubt that they will be looking at Fife's witnesses and thinking that Charlotte Myles was clearly the most open and honest, and that her account of trying to ensure a fair process in the face of biased colleagues engaged in a witch-hunt was highly credible, not least as all of her colleagues have clearly shown themselves to be biased and engaged in a witch-hunt.

The more your witness statement looks like you honest opinion, with no consideration of what others say and think, or the interests of your side of the dispute, the more you are likely to be seen to be credible and therefore listened to.

Gosh KS not looking as chipper today, love the picture of Sandie looking so happy

They must have been so sure Sandie was a gonner with a small payout and an NDA if it ever came to light.

No wonder Dr U had panic attacks after receiving the good news that a tribunal was incoming.

It makes for an amazing range of possible discussions that led the Board to have to join forces with him at the tribunal, given that he had been copied in to the email chain that could ruin them all.

This laissez fair attitude to timekeeping wouldn’t fly with EJ Goodman and Martin Reuby!

Enjoy ur Erasure

I don’t know what it is, but KS’s face looks exactly like what I envisage a devious manager to look like.

Occasionally I wander over to Reddit, and the difference in tone between here and there is striking. There the TRAs are all doom and gloom, and wishing physical harm to people; here we have recipes and legal expertise and general good humour.

I suspect we are not the baddies in this situation

She came in her gym kit yesterday, today she's put on naice claes.

Thats part of the problem no one understands what TRAs are talking about. All this pyscho babble and trying to rewrite biology with chromosomes being organs is beyond the comprehension of most us. I like scientific fact not some made up sociology science.

He'll find it hard to get a job in the UK after this so my money will be on him applying for a job in Australia, possibly under his original name. Of course, it won't be nearly as much fun for him over there as they appear to be totally captured: Theodore reappearing as Beth will probably still be welcomed but to less applause and adulation.