NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

Me neither. It was bang on. Was up for about 2 minutes.

Just made a huge bowl of popcorn and a large cuppa

I honestly feel sick reading this. It sounds like KS is basically saying that she took Upton at his word with no need for further consideration, and was justified in doing so, because as a Dr he is signed up to the GMC code and therefore has to be honest. I'm not sure if the complete logic fail or total lack of recognition of the need for any sort of accountability is worse there. I know a PP referring to Shipman was a joke but it does actually make the point nice and clear. Of course Drs can and do break the code, that's why there's a whole system in place around it. I mean, it would be totally reasonable to say she had no reason to think he was lying / mistaken / misinterpreting / exaggerating but not to take it to the extreme of he couldn't possibly be simply by virtue of being a Dr. What the hell else horrendous practice has this woman witnessed and written off as fine because if it's done by a Dr it must be OK because Drs aren't allowed to do bad things?! WTF?!

I feel annoyed that i missed it.

This woman is as mad as a box of frogs.

we see time & time again how easy it is for "allies" to be turned upon & attacked for pereceived slights or imperfections in policing the genderbollocks

Plus you will have the "trans saviour" mentality well embedded as you are protecting the Most Vulnerable etc. And you are self schooled in the "disagreement is hate" and "non complicance is hate" and you are forever tip toeing around everyone all the time, and avoiding all the haters. Plus we all know how exhausting & taxing pronoun policing and "correct pronoun" use is.

Completely nerve wracking & exhausting position to put yourself into.

KS mentioned that DU couldn't swap shifts without disclosing a reason but surely that doesn't stack up.

Whoever is in charge of the rota should have the tools to alter rotas based on business need. This could be absence or sickness related, or in this case, to prevent further distress or disruption while investigations are carried out.

Fifer : exact same hing wi Glenrothes Ranger Supporters. Geen it aw the "We are the people" like they're fae Govan, but they're no, they're fae Collydean ken?

NC is up!

Wasn't there a huge gap between her sending our the email saying she condemned Sandie's actions...and not one single person replying? 10 days or so... So how can she say that all the doctors and nursing team agreed with her and condemned Sandie? She spoke to them all personally face to face. ?
I find that hard to believe.
Oh NC is on...I'm off!

Oh let the fun begin - just as Im going into a meeting

Exactly, and you wouldn't disclose the reasons for sick leave, so it could have been done.

From TT

We're tweeting the second afternoon session of Peggie v Fife NHS Board and Dr Upton.

Naomi Cunningham will be cross examining ED consultant Kate Searle.

Fifer : tap aff the pringles, bevvie cracked open, baffies aff, baith fit up oan the pouffe. GLADIATOR RRRRRREADY

The ‘we’ was a push in the right direction like a ‘there will be no arguments’ kind of ‘we’ according to KS at least..

KS had only emailed 20 consultants so they'd all have been scratching their heads over a shift swap.

“ I am all astonishment” Do I spot a Pride and Prejudice fan there 😁.

Tuning back in for NC - couldn’t listen to JR. Too stressful.

🍿

From TT:

KS Beth was going to think about it but I dont think she did report it
JR Yr email to Beth at 12.20: 1st bullet point -why did u say this?
KS Cos all of the consultants and senior nurses agreed w me that we condemned these actions

And:

JR A response from a consultant to yr email. What did u make of it?
KS It confirmed my views re abuse and it's more upsetting from a collegue.

These would appear to be inconsistent. Either KS knew that all the consultants agreed with her already or she spoke on behalf of them all and received (just one?) supportive response.

Either way, we all agreed with my opinion (of DU's account, before hearing from SP) is probably not the defence angle NHS Fife needs right now.

Speaking as a 'ally', I have never been turned on or attacked for imperfections in my view by trans people or their supporters.

I have, however, had any expression of nuance in my view (or simple errors like misgendering) weaponised against me repeatedly by mumsnetters on the other side (e.g. calling me the banned word that begins with T and ends with F, calling me transphobic etc - this has never come from trans people).

I think this is yet another case of people accusing others of the very thing that they are in fact the ones doing. It's bonkers really.

Tbh it strikes me that Upton simply isn't cut out to be a doctor.

And being a spoilt, he can't just admit that and find another career.

So instead there ends up being a massive drama and blame game about how mean everyone else is and how life isn't fair. And various other people are sucked into it because they've been so socially conditioned to 'Be Kind' rather than to even consider the possibility its someone who should really be safeguarded against - not because they are necessarily a perv - but because they simply can't exist within that environment because of their own lack of mental capacity and lack of resilence.

Its the kid at school who just has to pick on some one else to make themselves feel better. But in the workplace. And gets everyone else to do it for them, by making accusations and turning on the tears.

Its so fucking frustrating, but its school playground level.

KS getting a slapped wrist from NC for non disclosure of documents.

So DU couldn't have been expected to request rota changes cause that would involve having to discuss the terrible trauma of having his sex pointed out but all the women who didn't want to sharing a changing room with a man should have to speak up individually about why that wasn't okay for them.... ?

KS is struggling horribly here in accounting for the documents she disclosed.

From TT

NC Good afternoon Dr Searle. I'd like to ask u some questions about documents first. That's MCs 5.2 email that yr cced into. Did u receive it?
KS Yes
NC Have u seen this case mgmt order before?
KS No
NC It's orders that the Rs provided. It says asap but Rs must supply all docs..

Fifer : straight fur the 'dug ate yer homework, did it aye' jugular. This is no gonnae be pretty. Ahm on my JP Morgan Account buyin Vileda shares.