NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

Me neither - it all made perfect logical sense.

These replies to KS's email to the consultants, are they examples of the replies NC was surprised didn't exist, the other day? I wonder whether they've found some more emails down the back of the sofa. Maybe that's part of what this morning's closed session was about. Or maybe I've misunderstood. Anyone understand?

From TT

KS He was informing us it was being taken forward and Ix.
JR [new doc] You to DU, MC, LH, LC and ? Why did u inform DU about this and who was taking the lead?
(KS) I was concerned she didnt know it was being taken forward re this v serious incident
JR DU Replies and thnx for update
JR [From Feb] I believe ED as charge nurse and sr nurse mger was starting the Ix into events.

Fifer : The investigation that wis sterted and feenisht the same day? Or a new ane?

JR From March: again giving DU an update. Why?
KS another 2 months ahd gone past and trying to manage them not mtg for her wellbeing. Has been little info re how a serious HI was being taken forward. May have been when DU wasnt at work

Fifer : so we're aw quite sure it wis a Serious Hate Incident, and we're gonnae start an investigation intae the events ony day noo. Is that no a bit Doctor Who Timey Wimey? Like are we aw sure the events are happening in the richt order?

JR When did DU go off sick? Approx?
KS I dont know. Off sick cos of stress and anxiety from the event.
JR What further involvement?
KS Wellbeing support and as a witness for the Ix

Fifer : witness tae whit? She witnessed fuckin nothin. It's there in black and white.

JR Is this your interview statement from the Ix
KS Yes

J We'll have a 5 min break?

Big Sond hasn't ticked his bingo caird in the entire second session. He is trying no tae make is petted lip obvious, but he's no happy.

It was a great essay @MyrtleLion !

Can you ask MN why it was deleted? I'm guessing someone didn't like one of the terms you used.

One wonders whether she is so careful of the female doctors. I'm thinking not.

I always remember Twitter comment re Kathleen Stock - "this middle-aged lesbian academic is making us feel unsafe, say balaclava-wearing mob".

I REALLY want NC to ask KS whether she agrees with Dr U's assertion that biological sex is ' a nebulous dog whistle '. I know she won't but it would be so funny to see her try and answer that..!😂

If KS had learnt that a junior Dr had just been given eg a cancer diagnosis, would she also blab that info to all the consultants so they would know about the impact on the rota?

She's not the Messiah, she's a very naughty boy?

In all seriousness, if Upton's proven to have lied (which seems likely), striking off the register and further legal action from Peggie for defamation is surely the only outcome?

Interesting. That was how DU spoke of SP throughout evidence. SP called DU Beth. It was really noticeable at the time. If KS is doing the same it suggests a very similar mindset at the very least to DU

One of the curiousities I notice is that, trans allies can often be even more batshit than the militant trans people themselves.

There's a pattern where extremists in religion are much more likely to be converts than those born into it, and it strikes me as being a similar thing. The reason converts are seen as more at risk of extremism is because of this inner need to prove their worthiness more than those born to it.

The purity spiral and virtue signaling madness feature heavily here too.

It would not surprise me, if it turns out its KS who really pushed everything to the bonkers level its become.

Or is it fear?
If they didn't back him, he'd turn on them and it would be them facing false ligation?

He is coming across as a nasty bit of work.

There's very much a tone of familiarity and friendship towards Upton by using Beth, and not towards Sandie. As clear as daylight.

TT's 1st Afternoon tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1947642151598207231.html

With Searle stating she had no reason to disbelieve Upton because GMC code etc... I wonder how she feels now. If she knows that he already rolled back on many of the things he initially told her. Things that he got her to write in her statements and emails.
She's not supposed to know about the tribunal but I assume she'll be aware of the internal disciplinary. And that he lied his socks off. That the patient incidents never happened and he's already said he was just concerned something might happen in the future

That he lied to HER and her blindly believing him has landed her in a big pile of shit (although she caused that herself by blindly believing him in the first place)

I wonder if she still feels sorry for poor terrified beth.

It's probably easier to be extra batshit when you think you're heroically defending a vulnerable person. All DU had to do was set the wheels in motion and they all went spinning on his behalf.

We had a challenge with one of our children who told lies past the age when it could ignored or dismissed. They managed to kick this before it had any serious consequences.

The more I listen to this tribunal, the more I have a sense that DU embellished and embroidered the Incident of the Changing Room and was inspired to toss in some additional juicy yet unverifiable bits. And then slowly became aware of the consequences of this folly but had no choice but to go forward but tried not to damage self and prospects through rowing back on different claims. No mention of a rapist or Isla Bryson's name, insufficient details to identify the Resus Patient or Left Without Being Seen.

But has got the organisation wholly invested in perpetuating the original story.

Like my 11 year old who accidentally set her game boy down on a damp work surface and never ever did she drop it in the bath.

Do we think this is a good enough excuse as to why she emailed everyone and her explanation of why she used ‘we’ i personally dont think she will get away with it but i always think ETs are in favour of the employer slightly so the Judge might buy it!

I'm a bit behind, but had to say that of all the earworms this thread has given me, this was the most unexpected. Although I did enjoy the Kirsty MacColl from earlier, and was wondering whether the Billy Joel was going to turn out to be "She's Always A Woman To Me"

Tomorrow is the only day I'm not free. Hope NC gets in some good stuff in the next hour!

I don’t think it is fear, they have all come across as being heavily invested in this ideology, especially KS, she’s evangelical about it.
Most people who lie about who they are, and expect and demand that other people acquiesce, are in my experience, nasty bits of work.

I second that. It can't be the term highlighted with an asterix because it's used all the time on here now with no deletions (not for me anyway)

I'm very interested to know why it was deleted.
Also great post by the way @MyrtleLion

He seems to have been uncooperative re. changing shifts too. Perhaps he wanted to make it difficult to steer the action take was taken against SP?

Eta I missed Myrtle's post can anyone summarise? Within the rules?

Sorry, trying to catch up - was the reference to the GMC code this afternoon?

This seems to be an admission that doctors and nurses are treated differently.

I think that the case management meeting must have included the awfulness of JR pushing for the horrible detail of the tittle tattle accusations. She has not done the same push with KS I’m glad to see so think she may have been tellt.