NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

If that is true, it enrages me (and I'm not easily enraged). Patients aren't there to validate his identity. How actually dare he complain about that.

Patients with dementia may lack mental capacity and the ability to process information.

The idea of making a complaint against them is really warped and lacking in education.

from herald
2:16pm
Dr Searle says she emailed her consultant colleagues because they all have a duty of care to the junior doctors. She says her shift patterns meant it was not possible to tell people verbally. Emailing colleagues meant they would be able to support Dr Upton, particularly if she was unable to come in for shifts.

@GreenFriedTomato TW now use female too.

Is that an MFU moment?

Is that a defence though? We're programmed (modern society or nature, whichever) to believe Men Don't Cry. So when a man cries our unconscious reaction is either "something truly terrible must have happened to him, far worse than what would have made a mere woman cry" or "he's not a proper man".

Dr Upton may even have benefited from both reactions.

(Catching up late as usual)

KS begins throwing DU under the bus

MFU? What does this mean?

NC is taking notes. I'm sure we'll find out KS response in due course.

We are now discussing an email that Dr Searle sent to all consultants in the emergency department detailing the incident from Dr Upton’s point of view. Previously, the tribunal heard from head of nursing Gillian Malone who said this email should not have been sent.
Dr Searle said: “It was a festive time of year with different shift patterns so I sent an email to consultant staff to inform them of the incident so we were all informed and able to support Beth should she become distressed at work or not able to come in for her rostered shifts.”

That’s what I understood from TT.

Monumental Fuck Up

From herald
2:19pm
Here's the text of the letter Dr Searle sent to the 19 other consultants, they they're talking about just now.
Thank you all with Beth's permission, I wanted to share with you some information regarding a very distressing experience Beth had with another member of staff at the end of her Christmas Eve shift.
Esther, Louise and Lauren are aware of the incident, but I would ask that you do not share with other staff while formal processes are ongoing.
Beth was approached in a very confrontational and aggressive manner by SN Sandie Peggie in the changing room.
She stated that she had no right to be in the female changing room, and that Sandie was not the only member of staff who felt this way, and that she found Beth's presence in there intimidating.
She then proceeded to use other offensive terms, including alluding to her presence in the female changing room being akin to the situation of a convicted rapist being housed in a woman's prison earlier this year.
Beth is understandably shaken and distressed by the episode, and indeed felt unsafe and threatened at the time.
I have had a long chat with Beth today and ensured she knows we all support her and that we condemn the actions of Sandie.
I have ensured that she will not be on shift with Sandie at all over the next month, she has four more shifts in ED than on secondment to anaesthetics.
While she completes her formal statement of complaint, which I think should be sent to her line manager, Melvin or Ian. In the meantime, we have completed a dataix and I have contacted the NHS Fife equalities lead and referred Beth to OHCS for support. Esther, Louise and Lauren are going to meet with Sandie.
Thank you for helping to support Beth through this with me and please let me know if anyone else has experience in managing hate incidents harassments.

She could have sent an email saying there had been an upsetting incident without revealing any further details. That would have been sufficient if it was just for Upton to have support

DU had spoken to the BMA at that point so was going to the meeting with KS primed. I suspect their focus was always on ensuring there was no way for the decision re DU's use of the F CR to be reviewed. Interesting that KS did not seek advice from HR which I would have expected before taking such a serious step.

Just need to say I'm making veg soup with celery in it, with hot rolls & melting 'butter' (health reasons).

As you were.

Your post was very clear and wonderfully sardonic. 😁

If there's one thing that these court transcripts show (in all cases I can remember anyway) it's that true believer allies are actually incredibly rare. Most of them are cynically pretending to make themselves look/feel good and will slip up under pressure.

I actually hope that trans observers take note of this. Is that the kind of support they really want?

Re the Chinooks - they are off to Balmedie to make sure there are no mines on Trump’s golf course before he visits at the weekend.

This feeling 'unsafe' and 'threatened' - is this just not Upton being shocked that there is someone willing to state that he was not a woman and in a sense to end the make believe of all the other participants in his delusion by doing so? He didn't want to be round her because she spoke the truth and if she spoke the truth who else might start to do the same. This is a HUGE ego problem.

“Had no reason to think it wasn’t true” - how about hearing the other side of the story before making up your mind, you arrogant twit.

from herald
2:22pm
Asked why she felt it was important that Dr Upton and Ms Peggie did not work on the same shifts, she said it was because Dr Upton had bumped into Ms Peggie on the morning of the December 29th and that she felt distressed and unsafe.

I hope they realise that the kind of support they want isn't actually possible in the real world, because that's the only possible conclusion.

I still can't fathom what, by comparison to an A&E department, makes the female changing room so unsafe for Dr.Upton.

Maybe its's just me being tough'n'hard but surely it's just drama llama language? And they all use it repeatedly.

Never the twain shall meet

SP just spoke to DU, no physical violence occurred.

Talk about an over reaction.