NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

Genuinely could not hate NHS fife more!! I know this is off topic but these people just lie about anything and everything to suit their narrative.. there is drinking the kool aid and then there is taking it intravenously and NHS fife is well and truly hooked up!!

https://x.com/GenderReceipts/status/1947537912247037972

I am all astonishment.

Had KS spoken to SP BEFORE or AFTER deciding it was a hate incident??

It seems like the definition of 'respect' has been tied in with other things. You can respect someone while informing them eg that their behaviour of self starvation is connected to anorexia, and cannot be denied or allowed to continue. Likewise psychosis, or a lesser, everyday pootling about thinking things that aren't true, such as someone with dementia believing their old home is their current residence. In this case there's not even a medical/psychological reason in most cases, just a wish, that isn't compatible with reality. You can be respectful of a person while acknowledging they aren't actually the opposite sex. I know this is really obvious on a thread like this but I keep trying to see a way to reverse the tide, and I wonder whether explaining this "like they're 5" is going to help some people.

Did KS just refer to DU as a Trans Identified MAN?

JFC that is terrible, absolutely unforgivable.

That's an incredibly good point...when is compromising patient safety because you are made to feel uncomfortable justified, and when is it not? Allegedly, SP and DU have each allowed their thoughts and feelings to affect patient care/ staffing levels on a ward.

Is it usual practice for a datix to be a collaborative effort with a non-involved person adding their perspective?

KS is clever enough to have a philosphical underpinning to her genderist beliefs, unlike most if not all who went before her, but I wonder whether she's ever had full engagement over them with an unashamed heretic like NC.

From herald
2:14pm
Why was it felt gender reassignment was a motivating factors in the hate incident, Ms Russell asks.
Dr Searle says Beth identifying as female, as a transgender female was the motivation for Ms Peggie starting this interaction and making offensive comments. Not any other reasons, which is what makes it a hate incident under the NHS Fife hate policy.

2:12pm
Ms Russell asks Dr Searle about Ms Peggie comparing Dr Upton's use of the female changing room in the A&E to being similar to men in the female prison estate.
She says for a transgender female to be compared to someone who has transitioned to female after being charged and then convicted of rapes like Isla Bryson is offensive.
2:08pm
The Tribunal has resumed. Ms Russell is asking Dr Searle about the Dataix - the "web-based system for adverse event reporting" used by NHS Fife - that was completed by Dr Upton.
Asked why she used this system, Dr Searle said it was her understanding that she had to as it met the definition of a hate incident.

Said it better than me.

Thats why the language used is designed to obfuscate. I'd see a transgender female as a woman choosing to live as a man. But the TRA movement has used various words to confuse, and quite reasonably, people who haven't thought about it much or read a lot are totally baffled and lead with the word they know. It's deliberate.

She did 😂 the truth will out.

The good allies can never sustain it, can they? Not even when being questioned by their own side.

Ooh at the interesting bit

How they are treating anyone medically i will never know 🤯

They're true believers, and therefore can't imagine that those other 199 could be bigots too, or might be keeping quiet out of fear of the ducking stool. I really think this is it. In the 21st century 🙄.

Agree. And if the witness doesn't know that Upton has withdrawn the allegation, she doesn't want to tell them. Keeping them in ignorance may help to get them to walk into a few more elephant traps.

You'd think becoming good at your job as an early career doctor would have been the main agenda, but no. It seems not.

I think the Herald reporters may be changing the language?

KS sent an email to "just" her consultant colleagues.

There were 19 of them.

Haha. I mean I never use TW, always TIM. But I thought prior to the SC ruling, it was just the definition of Woman that had been disputed, not the definition of female.

Back to the emails, which are here to be opened in a new tab:

drive.google.com/file/d/1U2v-CNXvWE_hqbpUQO3PTmjXHbu2pUwj/view

Can we save the chat for the breaks and the waits and try and focus on the business when it's happening live?

Which is what posters were doing, they were chatting whilst waiting for the proceedings to begin.

If Kate Searle felt the hate incident should be on the Dataix system. Why didn't she do two reports on the same system for the clinical errors/unprofessional behaviour they are claiming SP did. (leaving the room, not responding to Upton...) Surely those are far far more serious as they effect patient safety.