NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

Exactly - it was KS who wanted to call the police.
DU said they would rather not.
In part 1 we had lots of theories about why that would be - the main one being that DU may have exaggerated and didn't want to have to answer lots of detailed questions to the police

Thanks, I knew it was E something rather than KS, but got it wrong.

Yes. She asked if Upton was comfortable and happy to use the women's changing room. Sod the comfort of all the actual women and if they'd be happy with this huge bloke in there.

Wasn't that to do with scraping by Aston University?

Good morning ladies had a quick skim through this mornings posts in TT am mostly caught up i think am ready for Super NC to do her thing!!

Just to back up completely, if chromosomes don't matter to DU how on earth does he explain any chromosomal abnormalities to patients? My DD has a deletion and mutation which causes her to have learning and developmental disabilities.

After writing that, I realised I should have said PVG, rather than DBS, as I was talking about Scotland rather than the UK. Do you know whether the same rules apply for both? I read up on it before, and I remember thinking my speech is more free in England, but I can't remember why!

In that case I'll chirp in,
Gaelic is definitely easier than French on Duo.
Maths is good for a quick - shit i need to keep my streak at 11.58
Music is impossible

NHS Mean Girls probably would prefer poor wee sandie in chains and flung into prison as a warning to all females to toe the line and follow commands

I agree that it begs more questions than are being asked.

Aston was there, but it was happening for a long time (not just on MN), possibly before Aston got stuck in. Machines really can't cope with cake and cheese byways. Like all these things, once you realise what is happening you can't unsee it.

Agreed - but the staff at NHS Fife only knew about press attention after it blew up during Part 1 in Fenruary 2025. Nowhere near January 2024 which is what KS was supposed to be answering questions about. CM yesterday confirmed that it was late February 2025 before Margaret Gribbon's solicitor letter arrived and people started to realise things were getting a bit legal... But at no time before that

I always hated celery until i got a veg box delivered from local farm and now there is nothing nicer than organic creamy celery soup.

You can do maths on Duolingo??

I'd forgotten what Murdo Fraser got his NCHI for. Thanks for the reminder! 😂

However the NHS Fife leaders may not be so concerned about nurses being abused whilst doing their duty.

There’s no such thing!

She’s just clapping at Stalin until everyone else is sitting down.
I guarantee she’ll use he/him before the end of cross examination.

I find it extraordinary that KS took it upon herself to check some legislation (EHRC statutory act she said). She didn’t ask HR or legal or DEI, she did her own bit of research and decided all on her own that she therefore knew best.

As someone who works in policy and admin (not in the NHS but another similarly captured sector) it is the most infuriating thing when a non admin colleague smugly tells you they know all about a thing and don’t need your input, but guess what, they don’t know as they’ve found something out of date or irrelevant or from another jurisdiction or sector. And no matter how many times you tell these very clever important people to allow us to do our job and support them they insist on trying to out-clever us, and it rarely ends in anything other than a mess that the professional services staff have to unpick and clean up.

Yes, and there has been no suggestion that the confrontation might usefully be discussed between SP and DU in a facilitated setting under Dignity at Work. Straight to choosing a side, publicising it, and bullying SP via special leave, suspension, investigation(s) and disciplinary proceedings.

Yep, I had a case where someone who'd worked for us for years as a PhD student in the lab and then as a researcher came to me saying her dbs renewal would show something up this time. It turned out that it was a caution for carrying something in her handbag that was totally OK abroad and not in the UK and she'd forgotten to remove it on the trip back. It was fine, as totally irrelevant to the job in question and we'd known her for over 5 years. She was so worried, but I put her at ease. So she has a record, but it's not stopping her working and being brilliant at what she does.

Yes more like arithmetic.
Very good for reminding you that is multiple before add and multiplying negatives etc.

Yes, I've been using it to learn chess lately too!

Quick question. How are you subscribing to the courier for £1 ? It's coming up at £21.99 for me

No DBS in Scotland although similar but not identical PVG scheme. I wonder if all the press cover/publicity about the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 was influencing KS thoughts even though the act did not commence until April 2024?

Now I didn't know the Green bird did chess.