NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

NC will have fun with her this afternoon!

She may have suspected press coverage because she deep down knew that what they were accusing Sandie of was wrong, and that she might go for it, given other cases. But if she thought that then surely she might have acted differently, e.g. not sending those damning emails. So I bin that reason and assume she's lying. She doesn't need to produce a witness who won't appear due to fear and indeed may not exist. She can make up as many refusals to appear as she likes. No one can prove them. Unknown unknowns----, as Rumsfeld once said.

Noting that KS calls Dr Upton ‘Beth’ and Mrs Peggie Miss Peggie.

Why not Dr Upton and Mrs/Nurse Peggie for both or both first names?

This is certainly a tactic of JR for the audience to see Dr as female.

I don’t think that would occur to KS, how could ANYONE not see the vulnerable, marginalised DU was completely and utterly in the right?

I actually DO feel sorry for JR about this, it's such an obvious slip of the tongue, it had to happen at some point.

What even is the point of a non crime hate incident? If it's not illegal, why does it need a name or logging? What purpose, what outcome?

Reddit will not be feeling sorry for JR about this!

Really infuriating, trying to catch up quickly and read and take in others' relevant thoughts and commentary and having to sieve out all the quote posts continuing unrelated conversations while the most important witness is on the stand and people are posting insightful observations.

Can we save the chat for the breaks and the waits and try and focus on the business when it's happening live?

Well that is what they told KS - does anyone want to be a witness at a Tribunal. She knows KS is a DU supporter and so it is easier to say about race, than "nah am nae that bathered tae be honest" (sorry for poor imitation of @BezMills )

We are on thread (checks) 36.
Every one of these threads have discussed cakes, mayonnaise, regional accents, and now celery and Duolingo. If you don't like the chat, go and read tribunal tweets.
(I hardly ever post, but these constant scoldings are getting on my nerves now).

Another disappointing failure for not recognising the sanctity of their community.

So why would it be so damaging for DrU to use a separate CR? Not like it was going to out him. (I know why of course)

I agree. I'm sure the person Sandie spoke to said there was nothing untoward in the interaction. It was when Upton apparently was stood inches away from Sandie's face and waved at her. Hello!! I'm here!! Look at me!!

My bold.

I believe the justification is that it is logging behavior that may lead on to crime ..

.. please see Minority Report, pre-cog etc

And SP didn't even mention Isla Bryson by name and was considered an evil bigot for merely evoking "women in prisons". Will JR be hauled before the judge for mis-naming Bumba?

KS definitelty gives the impression of being a major shit stirrer. Prepared to totally destroy SP in order to save her own skin.

Yes, shades of the day of Jeremy Cunt on the news. Jim Naughtie started it, as I recall, and everyone was trying so hard not to say it that it turned into a 'don't think about pink elephants' moment, and loads did.

So I'll give her a pass on that.

Long story short, were introduced so police can monitor incidents of i.e. racism in the public even if they don't meet the threshold of a crime.

That way you can see if i.e. racism is getting worse before it might escalate to assaults, criminal damage etc.

It's the MN equivalent of case management. You'll just have to wait it out.

That was my impression too when it was discussed in February (I think it was February). That she was just going about her business, not necessarily chatting to him but getting on with what she doing and he basically got into her face.

To control dissent. It gets recorded on your DBS record (without going to court, and often without the alleged perpetrators knowledge), so if you have a job that requires a DBS check, you're in the shit just for speaking the truth.

KS will be referring to NHS Guidance, written by Stonewall and bearing no relationship whatsoever to the actual law.

Perhaps JR is hoping Isla Bumba will call the police immediately and have them lead her away from the whole sorry case!

KS certainly comes across as a nailed on true believer.

Exactly. This isn't a service set up to only discuss legal matters or provide a transcript. It's rather entitled that some posters are making such demands.
As others have said, these threads aren't just for your pleasure , set up your own thread or go and read TT. Stop telling people what they can and can not write.