NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

Brilliant. Now I can make something to eat. I've been guzzling coffee since 9am!
I'm wondering if NC will even get to cross X today as JR has only just started. Fingers crossed anyway. There certainly won't be time to have the phone guy on today

Total bargain. There is an article in today about RCN online events about the Supreme Court decision that is well worth a read.

It is a good quality website with good journalism. I don't think you can get a paper paper for £1 now, never mind 3 month's worth.

That doesn't fly. Whenever someone makes an allegation you must deal with it using "respectful uncertainty". You can say some soothing words if you want, you note the allegation and investigate it. You do not immediately jump to the conclusion that it is true (or that it is untrue).

Do they mean they thought it was a crime, but were unsure whether the hate element met the criteria,
Or
They thought it was a hate incident but didn't know whether it was a crime?

R.e. not getting involved because mixed race, as far as I could see there's nothing to suggest he/she wanted to get involved on Dr. Upton or Sandie's side. It could have been on Sandie's,side unless I've missed something.

As someone who is mixed race, it's also a bit of an odd thing to say unless it was in writing.

I'm crying laughing at JR calling IB the other IB. What a blunder!

I mean, she's not wrong...

How long does it take to read a short exchange about something like this? A few seconds. Stop making such a fuss

But if they had taken it seriously enough to report at the end of December, then the other doctor would not have had this worry.

She thought it met all the criteria for hate incident but unsure for crime. But that hate incidents can also be reported to the police hence the recommendation to get the police involved

TT's (very short) morning tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1947559697256501349.html

After this case, everyone at Fife should insist on recording any 'informal' conversation with any senior staff.

It's ridiculous to bring such a stupid evidence-less smear at all, but even if it isn't true, then staff who meet the description may feel as though a spotlight has been put on them.

From TT

KS - discussed police, that's part of incident or crime policy
JR -
KS - embarrassing, humiliating, met those criteria
JR - NHS staff must report all hate incidents
KS - that's why we did datix and informed DU and SP managers
JR - SP manager is?
KS - apologies missed the name
JR - think a good place for lunch.
J - back in one hour.

ENDS SESSION

Surely that's not right? For KS and DU to be filling out the Datix together? 🧐

No getting all sides, no filling it out independently? What, him just sat there making sure she's putting in every little thing that might successfully burn the witch while she's typing and nodding away obediently???

KS trying to stitch SP up..right from the word go. No sense of there being two sides to a story.

Unless you're Police Scotland, and you're investigating a Non Crime Hate Incident 🙄

I want to read this thread for the legal analysis, but I estimate that determining that a post is not that and scrolling past it has taken several hours over the last few days. I'm not "policing" and I'm resigned to the fact that these threads will be at least 50% repetition, chat, placemarking, and misunderstood jokes, but it's not an insubstantial amount of time if you're trying to follow closely.

That is all I will say for fear of adding to it. All meant with good humour as a FWR regular.

My first reaction on reading the nurse saying she didn't want to get involved for her own safety was to think that she was worried about contradicting Upton, and how that might impact on her safety.

That's good to know, because the way KS is talking, I felt she was building up to 'My responsibility was to support Beth not to investigate the incident. I honestly believed Beth's narrative, and acted appropriately..'
accompanied by a look of concerned innocence🙄

Good to know that that was NOT the limits of her responsibility, she was not DrU's support animal!

The other thing that stood out for me was the mixed race colleague having fears for her safety, which KS says she now thinks was about press coverage - as PPs have said, how would KS know there would be future press involvement??

I hope NC asks her what she thought the alleged safety fears were about at the time, i might turn out to be another racism smear.

‘Do not say Isla Bryson, do not say Isla Bryson, oh bloody hell!!’

Interesting perspective. Maybe the other nurse didn't want to place herself on DU's "side"

NC is silent and still, no expression or motion betrays her thoughts - all data are being logged and cross-referenced in her Mental Vault. The big slate-coloured ring again on her right middle finger.

It's making me want to buy one of those rings in the faint hope it will imbue me with some super power, probably transferred from NC's force field despite the great geographical distance.

How embarrassing!

Break until 2 - we're not going to have time for forensic phone man today are we. Will his attendance be postponed to tomorrow ?

KS: asked if she recalled, she was concerned about getting invoved in conv, she said I am mixed race, I am worrued about getting involved for my own safety.
JR - what do you think she

This was the person in the room when Sandie allegedly spoke to her not Beth. Doesn't imply any sort of support for one side or other.

May also be the case aware KS is a shit stirrer.

That said I thought this person had already testified that she hadn't noticed anything strange for the internal investigation, I remember mentioning someone mentioning at some point?