NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

Good spot @Jerabilis

JR refers to "Isla Bryson" meaning Isla Bumba, and corrects herself. But we are transphobic if we "misgender" someone.

I’m finding them very useful

JR just mentioned nearly ready to break for lunch...

Poor old Isla Bumba, whatever her professional failings, she doesn't deserve to be mistaken for Isla Bryson!

Can we not cross-post from the Herald? They're doing sterling work and proper journalism should be supported - it's £1 for a subscription which will more than cover the tribunal period!

From TT

JR - subsequent conv with other staff member?
KS - asked if she recalled, she was concerned about getting invoved in conv, she said I am mixed race, I am worrued about getting involved for my own safety.
JR - what do you think she meant?
KS - this at this point meant this legal case, press attention staff involved underscrutiny and views would be widely publicised.

Big Sond ticks 'racist' on the Bingo Caird, his expression is inscrutable.

JR - what did DU describe in meeting 29th Dec
KS - all of events of Xmas eve and 2 other incidents. That was an escalation from previous events, she wouldn't stay in CR if Beth there

Big Sond ticks something on his bingo caird, but we can't see what

JR - DU telephone notes. Seen before?
KS - not seen Beth subsequently told me about them
JR - when?
KS - 29th along with rest. Not sure if mentioned around time I sent email to IB about CR policies. May have had conv then and prompted me.
JR - might have known on 8th when emailed

Fifer : nae comment fur the noo, ahm still pecht fae runnin back fae the shops ken?

New race angle?
JR - other staff member?
KS - asked if she recalled, she was concerned about getting invoved in conv, she said I am mixed race, I am worrued about getting involved for my own safety. J
R - what do you think she meant?
KS - this at this point meant this legal case, press attention

But what did KS think at the time? SP a danger to mixed race colleagues??

If this happened it should have appeared in IX bundle

isla bryson!!!

I think it's ok, because will encourage people to sign up themselves (word of mouth advertising as it were)

The implication is that the potential witness was approached recently and backed away out of fear of abuse from supporters of SP.

from h
12:54pm
Now Ms Russell is asking about the notes Dr Upton kept of two other changing room incidents she had experienced with Ms Peggie.

Who's 'we' ? Doe she mean her and Beth completed the Datix?

That's a shame as I find them helpful, especially since The Courier, to which I subscribed yesterday, doesn't seem to be running a live feed today.

I believe there is a consultants 'lounge' for want of a better term and that it may have a separate toilet. Elspeth Pitt explained that they change and leave their belongings there. It sounds cozy. I'm not surprised they did not invite a junior doctor to join them.

But they couldn't just bring someone new in, if they were known at the outset and not involved in the IX?

Back at 2

from h
12:56pm
Asked why she thought the Christmas Eve incident was a hate incident. She said it was because she believed Dr Upton had experienced harassment and threatening behaviour.
They were unsure, at the time, if it met the criteria in the policy for a hate crime.

Surely at that point of time there would not have been expectation of publicity/press involvement?

You're really interrupting the discussion of the live hearing. Could you take Duolingo talk elsewhere please?

Also, given the amount of discussion around the case, bringing this up now risks that 'mixed race' person becoming vulnerable. Because although we don't know who was on those shifts around Christmas, people who were there might.

But of course KS would have looked into the patient safety concerns as soon as they were raised to her - in line with the requirements of the GMC?!?

From TT

JR - might have known on 8th when emailed isla Bryson, sorry Isla bumba
KS - ????
JR - on the changing room 26th Aug 2023 incident? did she say?
KS - not sure, we talked on 29th dec, might have been mentioned before and why I wrote 8th Dec.
JR - you reviewed hate policy, quick look then likely break for lunch
R - is that the policy you mean?
KS - yes
JR - difinition of hate incident written there, can you read and describe why you think it applied
KS - thought it verbal abuse and harassment.
JR - same for hate crime, why catagorised?
KS - we discussed, filled datix, felt criteria met

NC is silent and still, no expression or motion betrays her thoughts - all data are being logged and cross-referenced in her Mental Vault. The big slate-coloured ring again on her right middle finger.

Time seems to be a nebulous dog whistle for them.