NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #36

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35

Why do I keep flashing back to Dr Spaceman in 30 Rock explaining that medicine isn't a science?

I have to admit I came online just after the tribunal actually started and jumped to the last thread.

Do we know what caused the delay? Bunch of squirrels started running about amok?

Agree. Some of us have been on these threads since it was all fields, a bit of side chat is totally fine (although celery can do one), if that poster doesn't like it, there are other places to keep up.

From TT - I understand the typing real time conversation, but the juxtaposition of question and answer is somewhat humorous.

JR - continues saying intimidated, and mentions isla bryson KS - inappropriate JR - who is Isla bryson KS - rapist in prison JR - lots of other feel this way - aware any concerns? KS - no

Scotsman has one too, readable
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/sandie-peggie-v-beth-upton-live-the-latest-from-the-nhs-fife-trans-changing-room-employment-tribunal-5235488

Didn't ehrc advice at that time recommend trans inclusion irrespective of GRC unless there's a LAPA? No-one on either side spotted that letting in legal males would 'break' the sse. Until the Supreme Court 😎

I suspect there isn’t a separate changing room for Drs and nurses. We don’t have separate ones.

If KS wanted to support DU, she could have just said, sorry you have had an upsetting experience, we will investigated and get back to you.

Not started a campaign involving a cast of thousands!

I have a wide variety of much less polite responses available on request

There are other ways to keep up with the tribunal, such as subscribing for £1 to the Herald live feed. That is a news column, so doesn't contain "irrelevant shit" but it takes a long time to get any information when there are delays, like this morning over 2 hours, or breaks.

I enjoy the conversations in here. Go and be snippy somewhere else if you don't.

She definitely doesn't seem to have the confidence in her statements in the way CM did yesterday.

I thought there was one for consultants but not for junior doctors.

Just spend a quid to get direct access! Not really fair on Herald to copy them, other than just one or two.

Ha! Nope.

KS said at the beginning that 'wellbeing' was one of her roles vis-a-vis DrU.
So she may be setting up the defence that her duty was to support him in what he said had happened, rather than investigate what actually happened/get other side of story etc.

We heard that consultants usually choose to change in their individual offices.

At the same time, I thought there was one for women but not for men

That assumes DU is reasonable and wouldn't have felt anything other than a absolute condemnation to be genuine support...

But yes that's what most managers would do. Even support privately as long as not part of the internal investigation.

Herald Scotland blog is free to read- look up Herald Scotland and press 'live blog' link. here's the most recent to bring you up to date!

12:45pm
Dr Searle her conversation with Dr Upton led her to realise that a [internal reporting form] Datix needed to be complete led.
They discussed letting police know, as that is what NHS Fife hate policy recommends.
They then looked through shift patterns.

12:43pm
Asked why she said she would let the other consultants know, Dr Searle said it was so Dr Upton could finish work early and leave if needed, though she didn't.
12:41pm
Dr Searle says she was not aware of any concerns from others about Dr Upton's use of the changing room.
12:40pm
Dr Searle says she was very concerned as she knew this would have been very upsetting for Dr Upton.
She said Ms Peggie telling Dr Upton that they were not a woman was likely harassment incident under NHS Fife's hate policy.

Is it my time? Am I the missing patient?

I'm given to understand that the consultant room is more of a staff room for consultants who are on-call/travelling long distances so stay at the hospital for long periods, rather than a changing facility.

That defence ends when you choose to email 19 colleagues stating what he said as fact.

Please keep posting Herald posts. I like comparing the two and get swivle-eyed toggling between tags.

Many thanks to everyone for keeping us up to speed.

‘If ‘she’ felt safe’ they really do fill in the whole bingo card don’t they? 🤦‍♀️

@snickersbarchild 🤣🤣🤣