NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #35

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34

I had a private bet with myself that KS would call in sick today. The delay suggests to me that she's doing the next best thing - she's there pleading special reasons why her cross examination should be held in private.

I reckon Christmas is cancelled folks.

"TRA in the street, TERF in the sheets", as the saying goes.

It's just hit me again what a clown world we're living in, reading through all of these comments.

Also, if I wear my husband's clothes, am I trans until I put a dress back on???

I was until I walked the dog and got covered in mud by her and her friends 😅

Just a reminder that overly personal and cruel attacks on KS aren't going to do any favours to the GC cause. I'm sure there will be enough in her evidence to feel properly critical of without adding on any unfair hostility.

I hate myself for writing this post but I just worry about how the threads might be viewed by people who are looking to them in order to work out where reason and compassion and sense are in this debate.

I'm not aiming this post at anyone who has already posted about her, I'm just looking forwards.

Sorry. It turns out that there is another Charlotte Myles who is an NHS manager who does come from Wigan.
According to her LinkedIn profile the NHS Fife Charlotte Myles was at Manchester Metropolitan University for seven years.

45 mins in, TT is still saying 'Slight delay this AM' - is this an example of your chorming Briddish unnerstatment?
I feel it should be prefixed by 'Frightfully sorry old chaps, but....'
😁

No, it was Mrs R Wright-Turner v London Borough Council of Hammersmith and Fulham and Ms K Dero. The claimant suffered from ADHD and PTSD. When her employer found out, they extended her probation period and subsequently dismissed her. She was awarded past loss of earnings, future loss of earnings up to retirement, loss of pensions, injury to feelings, psychiatric injury plus an uplift for failure to comply with the ACAS Code of Practice. She was also awarded exemplary damages of £15k, in part due to attempts by witnesses for the Council to deliberately mislead the tribunal.

More discovery gaps about the estate manager's involvement - didn't NC ask for names?

TBH these delays were really common in phase 1 earlier in the year - usually they were to do with legal issues or Fife's non-disclosure of documents.

I wonder if NC now wishes to call some rebuttal witnesses given the smear-campaign, can of worms that JR opened yesterday

Dr Kate Searle: middle class, supremely confident and wrong.

From the photo, it looks as though she didn't come dressed for a public court appearance.

Two other Scottish nurses have spoken out about their treatment by the RCN. I am staggered that this is going on. That people can be treated like this just for asserting their rights under the law and stating facts. It is so dystopian. If SP does go ahead with her case against the RCN, hopefully it will shine a big spotlight on all this madness.

archive.ph/eegwb

How strange, SP is not wearing her MAGA hat 🤔 😂

To be fair this tribunal has never started on time - even earlier in the year. 15-30 mins was normal - so 45 must seem "slight"

There was one day that started well over an hour late while the panel heard about non-disclosure by Fife

😂

Even a bigot can hold protected beliefs. Of course, but being a bigot itself is not a protected belief. Being gender critical is protected, being transphobic is not.

😂😂😂

Define transphobia. According to TRA everything is transphobic, especially gender critical beliefs

Re-reading it, this is another clear example of smearing SP by association.

"JR - she said PMSL, you were both laughing about the TW in the CR"

If she had any direct evidence of SP laughing she would have used that instead.

They are/were probably arguing about the missing docs and a warning for those who signed off on the various iterations of the Friday press release. They also have that ex-policeman’s complaint about misgendering.

Phase 1 always seemed to be a good 45 minutes late.

Surely they know that some of us put the hours in last night/early this morning (in anticipation of a 10:45ish start)!

Actual opinion polls from reputable pollsters disagree. His ratings are negative on immigration, economy, trade and inflation. He has the lowest approval ratings of any president in history in most polls. X is not a reliable source since Musk turned it largely into a MAGA echo chamber. However, this is way off topic.

Well hello there, CantHoldMeDown, my kinda woman 😎- bar the DH obvs😁

I think it's not so much that Stonewall et al. say we are trans, it's that by having such a catch-all definition, anybody can claim trans status, and therefore claim to be the most marginalised and literally genocided people in society.

We don't want to be trans, thanks all the same folx, but the there's nothing stopping us, or lots of other even vaguely gender-non-conforming people, from identifying as trans under these waffly 'definitions'.

In general, and to be fair, a woman could be in the midst of stripping off, and if some cheeky chappie unexpectedly waltzed into the women’s changing room, I suspect that could be enough to surprise/creep out women who haven’t consented to this. Also, it might not be a demand that she look when a random man gets his kit off in such close quarters either. However, I suspect a woman could be freaked/creeped out by all these things, even if she hadn’t been a victim of previous sex offences such as voyeurism/flashing by men.

Yes, DU did indeed say he changes in the corner of the women’s changing room. Yet despite previously saying that SP had him cornered in the female cr, it transpired through questioning in court that his male body was actually between SP and the door. So I don’t know what he means by corners, or if that is true. I also know that through questioning, he said that he is a biological woman, if you don’t mind! Not forgetting his claims about the danger he said SP posed to patients, and never really seemed to have a coherent basis which he could pinpoint.

I have an ear worm myself now. Kirsty MacColl; ‘There’s a guy works down the chip shop swears he’s Elvis’.