NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #35

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34

Chromosomes are organs now?

Jeso, it would be funny if it weren't so mind bogglingly stupid wouldn't it? This is the National Health Service ffs!

Gosh not sure about that. But I guess the NHS Fife witch trial procedure would be a good one. Or her reputation being trashed, allegations of unprofessional conduct, impact upon earnings and pension.

This is so fucking offensive. You'd think someone at NHS Fife would have checked what they have on their web pages. Or maybe they have, and think it's just fine.

I understand that, but that was a separate procedure.
This is a separate Tribunal. Peggie is claiming harassment related to a protected belief.
Being GC is protected (<personal eye roll - I hope that's allowed>) but the defence are trying to show that her beliefs are in fact just plain day bigotry. Being a bigot is not protected.

Re chromosomes- is that how stupid people are, they think chromosomes are organs???

Makes more sense now how TRAs et al can do the mental gymnastics of thinking TWAW.

we need better biology lessons in schools! (And retrospectively for e anyone making policy!)

You'd think someone at NHS Fife would have checked what they have on their web pages.

No, I really wouldn't!

We need NHSfife to provide a diagram showing the position of the chromosomes in relation to the ovaries.

Luckily, the chances of the judges falling for this are probably about zero.

It just confirms that SP is being victimised. She makes a perfectly lawful and reasonable request for a same-sex changing room and as a result of that she is smeared as a homophobe, racist and a risk to patients.

From TT

Good morning.

This is the fifth day of the July session of hearings in Peggie vs NHS Fife & Dr B Upton. Due to start at 10am.

Today we expect the first witness to be Kate Searle, A&E consultant

No, they just don't know what chromosomes are.

They've read/heard the genderists' "I don't know what sex I am, I haven't had my chromosomes checked" and think that's equivalent to ovaries - something inside you no-one can see without a "check".

"Intersex is a gender identity."

Well, you can't get much clearer, and wronger, than that!

Also, their policy states that they will support their members on the basis of all 9 protected characteristics, and if they are unable to support someone, they will give a clear, written explanation as to why they can't. SP said she hasn't had this.

This.

grey rocks people.

Today should be good. I always like seeing ideologue bullies hoist from their own petard.

Think it is imperative a proper biology teacher gets up to Fife NHS and delivers a couple of lessons. At this rate the whole lot will need to be under clinical supervision.

I am really concerned for the truly competent staff that are suffering under this shambles

I mean sure, I can imagine there are people who have decided that "intersex" is a gender identity that they wish to identify with. Like say you've just started endocrine treatment or have had some surgery but plan to have more. Or maybe you're just (spicy straight) edgy like that and have decided that non-binary is pretty vanilla and you refuse to be constrained by such a boring identity.

I think that they work off this scale

This is absolutely awful and incredibly offensive.

They've read/heard the genderists' "I don't know what sex I am, I haven't had my chromosomes checked" and think that's equivalent to ovaries - something inside you no-one can see without a "check".

How on earth did we find someone to procreate with in the millennia before we had an understanding of chromosomes to confirm which sex we were? Was it just trial and error?

A reminder of Those Emails.

Also, lots of people support Trump without really understanding what that means. Just as with many Farage voters (and, indeed, Brexit voters), they feel the current system has let them down and want change, so will support people offering change thinking it can't be any worse. Opinion polls suggest that many Trump voters in the USA have realised they were wrong - it can be worse. But this is way off topic for this thread.

Even if Peggie is a Trump supporter, that doesn't automatically make her a bigot. Fife should stop accusing her of racism and homophobia without proof, and JR should stop encouraging their witnesses to do so. And she is entitled to a single sex changing room regardless of her political views.

Why are you eye rolling over a person having a Gender Critical viewpoint? It's perfectly legal and legitimate to believe in biological reality or do you not think so?

Even a bigot can hold protected beliefs. Hypothetically, even if SP was a racist and a homophobe she would still entitled to not being subjected to having to get undressed in front of a man in a workplace changing room. She would still be entitled to object to this. Those who are intolerant to her views are the bigots.

I agree and tries to say something similar but in a much less organised way and with far too many typos! In awe. 🫢

According to her Green Party election leaflet CM is from Wigan in Lancashire & went to university in Leeds.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNNrTjAg_Qt/

Yeah people went about randomly bumping their chromosomes together more in hope than expectation.