NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #33

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32

I really do think we've "won" the terf wars.

And comparing it to 'peaking' and being at the top of the mountain - don't forget that a lot of accidents happen on the way down. The euphoria probably makes people just slacken their guard. Remember how excited we felt on 16th April? 3 months on, we are still in the thick of a battle.

Because their definition of transphobia is wanting privacy from men

Glad you made it back from the river!

Every time I'm reminded of this, my brain goes

After the tribunal I wonder if KS is going to realise just how many people have thrown her under the bus.

Whenever her name gets mentioned it's like you can actually hear bones crunching.

Do we know when she's on? I'm excited, I dont mind admitting.

Tea break. Thinking of good men, and less about privacy but more about understanding, I had awful sickness when I was in early pregnancy. I worked somewhere I didn’t want to declare it to early but for the men I worked with it was obvious. I could only stomach sweet tea and salty crisps which they noticed. And at regular periods through the day both would appear on my desk. If I disappeared to the loo they covered without query. Never a comment, never a problem, never an issue. They could never experience it but they supported me and rallied. I was never more grateful to a group of chaps as the only woman in the office at that time!

All that to say that I thing the larger number of men are decent humans. Making DUs actions all the more blatantly atrocious.

Tomorrow I believe

You make a point i have seen them squabbling online about getting more organised like ‘the terfs’ but they just end up getting mad at each other for not being supportive enough.. where as women know how important each other is and how important it is to protect our right for future generations of women and girls..

Thks for responses to my post and for pointer to other threads. I consider myself reasonably well informed. But. I had no idea how entrenched and vicious things have become nor how topsy-turvy. Feel a bit stupid now to be honest.

You know when you're going up a small mountain ... you see the summit ahead ... after another 20 minutes puffing up the hill, two more summits appear behind the original ...

I love doing a picnic.

Halved boiled eggs with salt in a screw of paper
Cheese sandwiches with pickle, slightly squished in the tin foil
Homemade cake, cut into thin slices
Some homemade sausage rolls
Some crisp apples to munch on
Some cubes of cheese
And some chilled bottles of posh pop.

I have been known to take the fixings for gin and tonics too.

For sure there are still battles but I really think the main war of public opinion is won. Not to say it won't change in the future but it's not going to happen under the radar anymore. Too many people are aware.

Before today starts just a quick thank you to all those involved in recording and passing on the Tribunal activities. And also to the many wise mumsnetters commenting and giving context to the proceedings.

Dr Upton 100% played Skyrim an awfy lot as a teenager - has that Main Character Energy

For non gamers, Skyrim is a massive computer game from 2011 where you play the classic 'nobody who is born with magic blood and saves the world' trope. You can sit down and lose 13 hours at a time playing it, it's that engrossing. You are very much the central character of the world, that's why it's so good.

I'm in the court room I'm sure but I have a blank screen. Does anyone else?

My dad on walks when we were younger "just one more hill! Oh actually I didn't mean that one...I meant this one. Just round this corner...no not that corner, the other one".

I believe KS is testifying tomorrow Tuesday 22 July

It's been quite funny seeing them give up on whatever nonsense tactics they were trying (except the classic 'get a mumsnet login and tell the terfs off for three posts then run away') and copy every single thing women have been doing, down to the words, the phrasing etc. But like a 6yo trying to fit in with 16yo, they use words they don't understand and just end up embarrassing themselves.

But now they've got to do it properly like women did, building themselves up slowly with small wins and turning the tide of public opinion.

So e.g. genuine discrimination not hurty feels.

My heart just breaks for Dr Upton and I'm wishing her all the best.

Time to line the teacups up, my eyes are on a single spot on the sofa. I'm making a beeline for it and I'm not moving.

You speak for us all I'm sure

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34

I only realised because i always knew 2 things 1. How dangerous the drugs they are taking are because my sister is intersex (so them using that always annoyed me aswell) and 2. I had a trans friend 20 years ago so i know how these things used to be handled.. if I hadn’t had prior knowledge of these things i know i wouldve been in the ‘be kind’ portion of the population 😬