NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #31

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30, found here: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30

From TT

Document referred to is the NHS Fife statement. Link to follow

Fifer : seen it. Whit's new! Mon, spill the beans NC.

My understanding is It’s a self insurance scheme throughout NHS Scotland though so ultimately still public money

Likewise, but I never thought it had an Irish dimension.

I did wonder about posting those emails, but posting them didn't involve any threats of violence, which is what NHSF are complaining about.

I'm sure that there is a slang term for difficult emails or communications sent out at end of day on a Friday.

Hey look NHS Fife SUDDENLY CARING about the well being of their staff.

The ones they like.

Forget about the one you kangaroo courted. She doesn't matter.

It just makes it all look worse. Not better.

I think it could be, my feeling was that whilst it was not a copy but written from the publicly open bundle it might have been better to wait before publishing it.

So JR knew it was going to be published and she let them? WTF

Head of Comms, bursting into the room to the backdrop of multiple ringing telephones: "What the fuck have you done?!"

Timmy the Work Experience Chap: "You said to post that statement."

HoC "Yes, AFTER the tribunal had finished for the day! Not while their fucking barristers have still got chance to flay us alive in front of the judge!"

Timmy: "But it's Friday and I wanted to go home early..."

<Scene closes with Head of Comms outstretched hands reaching for the throat of Timmy>

While fully admitting my bias, their statement seems to be blatantly untrue.

At the very least, and with my most neutral hat on, the incident that initiated the disciplinary proceedings is not clear, and establishing this point seems key to the outcome of the tribunal.

Can NHS Fife get into trouble for this, or are they as free to state an opinion as anyone else?

Have they removed the statement already? I can no longer access it.

Oh, the audacity of Maya, accurately reporting on the actions of NHS Fife's own staff!

It's because we are getting to the sharp end of it now, which is that NHS Fife gave female staff a female only changing room and then said it was also open to any man who lied about his sex.

The insurance is more of a pooling arrangement amongst all the NHS Scotland Trusts. They are each charged a premium to cover a proportion of the losses. It was presumably intended to cover staff getting hurt at work and clinical negligence claims. It's still going to hit Scottish taxpayers' wallets (unless they did reinsure the pool). I might wander off to have a look if I get bored over the weekend.

I don't think a mainstream big name insurer would have been this mad.

Quite a bit of Dublin slang is from British, esp British Army - slang - so not necessarily Irish in origin.

Fifer : that 25 large is sleekit bamism. Let me explain. Firstly, the cost is fae a kitty the aw pey in tae, the NHS trusts in Scotland a mean. So firstly aw the money is comin oot ay NHS Scotland, somehoo. Secondly the 25K is comin fae Fife straight away, aye, then they'll need tae pey their share ae the hauf million or whatever this stramash ends up costing, tae. So even the 25K for Fife alain is gibberin pish min.

See this lot, they'd pish doon yer breeks an tell ye it's rainin.

Jane Russell's face is a picture

You mean...

<Scene closes with Timmy being promoted to lead strategist on a permanent contract with everyone delighted at how well he's going to fit in here>

This is not directed at you but just my inner thoughts on this complaint (if a complaint was actually made)

Oh aye a "concerned member of the public" made a complaint, it was definitely not someone from NHS Fife or a TRA 🙄

It is. They pay out roughly £50M in an average year, most of it to cover claims for clinical negligence, so NHS FIfe's legal costs in this case are a drop in the ocean at the moment.

Good grief, I’m regretting not logging on this afternoon. Didn’t think it was worth it for an hour or so. I’m so pleased they are having this transcribed.

I can understand that it must be very frustrating that since they are respondents they have much less freedom than Sex Matters and other interested and informed commentators on the case that are able to speak more freely. But they should just suck it up. It's an extraordinary set of circumstances and other legal experts do not normally take such an active interest in ET proceedings. They are probably just as frustrated by the various lawyers commenting, but the relationship between Sex Matters and the case is unusually close. Something that perhaps should have been raised with the Judge, not in a press statement!

Are they legally allowed to release a statement like that while the tribunal is ongoing?

Agree. A lot of legal commentators say single people are unprotected but don't explain why. It seems possible we'll need an answer on the gender reassignment front in the near future because of likely litigation around interpretation of the SC ruling.

CE says threats made in the past against SP & team.