Violent trans rights protest in Manchester.

[GreenFriedTomato]

This happened 2 weeks ago but I only found out about it when Mr.Menno uploaded a video yesterday.
A few local YouTubers were there and got plenty of footage. Notably they were all quite shocked at how aggressive the TRA's were. Well the ones who weren't familiar with the way they operate.
They didn't just stick to marching through the streets. They invaded the Arndale Centre and marched shouting and swearing while rather bemused looking people were shopping and trying to enjoy their day.
Things turned violent as usual. Two young lesbians got punched and dragged to the floor.
I've linked to a video by Billy Moore who generally goes around filming the city and talking to homeless people and so on. It's quite long but the trans stuff starts around the 15 minute.mark if anyone's interested.

So ironic to see allies bleating on about how trans are the most marginalised and vulnerable and have had their dignity and rights taken away, while the delicate flowers are being filmed acting violently and attacking women (and men).

But carry on lads. People need to see more of this.

@Diverze But the vast majority of trans people (especially the young, vulnerable ones) are not deliberately lying when they say that they believe they are the other gender.

You keep saying 'vast majority' and 'most trans people'. Where is the data on this please?

Dreadlocked lesbian went right to the front and put a camera in what looks like a woman's face, holding a flag. I wouldn't like that, it's aggressive

What time is that?

If you look at 28.25 you can see the two lesbians trying to escape from the crowd and being shoved back so they can't escape.

Well that's a change from everyone saying that trans people all believe TWAW and TMAM!

But they got into it themselves!

No they didn't.

Look at 30.56 when they are on the outskirts and the TRAs keep walking back into them.

Start at 25.12 when sandwich board man goes up the front shortly followed by dreadlock lesbian who pushes past a woman and aims a camera at her face. The rest just follows on, hoody lesbian is weaving in and out of the crowd. They are not the total innocents in this. Yes meatloaf is being aggressive but they're not helping matters. There was no need for them to do that unless it was to spark a reaction

They are people who have a philosophical belief about themselves that doesn't reflect the material reality of their body.

They exist. Would you like to try to twist my words any further?

So just after the TRAs stand in the face of billboard man,dreadlock lesbian joins him as support and then after a few seconds moves to the side. TRAs then surround both billboard man and dreadlocked lesbian.

Are you unable so see the actions of the TRA or just ignoring them.

I haven't watched it.

But let's say someone was being provocative in a protest, isn't the full blame on the people who act violently and aggressively? If two lesbians who have no history of violence, are not even known, causes a violent and aggressive reaction from simply being there and walking around, doesn't that concern you?

There is no violence or aggression from the women when we actually have organised protest events. The women sing, make speeches and hold up non-violent signs. Often using humour. If a male person who is unknown to them walks through the group, they might be followed, or they might be turned away calmly by female stewards. No intimidation or aggression.

The two groups are almost polar opposites in reaction.

No I'm not ignoring them but what I saw is true. She did push past a woman who was just calmly holding a flag and then put a camera in her face. The woman didn't react other than a slight smile. It's important to note the actions of both sides. I saw and acknowledge meatloaf being aggressive but there was also no need for the two lesbians to get in amongst them either. You need to not ignore both sides too.

The woman who was "calmly holding a flag" had in fact just walked over and stood directly in front of billboard man to block him

I would have to go back and check that but why did he go and stand right in front of the protesters if he didn't want some sort of reaction? They were doing their own thing as is their right. People getting right up in front of them with cameras in their faces isn't going to go well. If they just had some sort of genuine interest in filming they could have done it from the side. I can see you're not going to agree with me, we both see it differently so there's no point in keep raking over it.

I don't know anything about the two lesbians do you? This could be something they like doing for all I know. I know I wouldn't go and get in and amongst a protest of something I didn't agree with.

I don't know anything about them. You are assuming that they were there specifically for that protest. Were they? They could have been off doing something else and passed through. I have no idea but I am not the one saying they may have been provoking the reaction.

As I said though, the provocation is actually irrelevant. These are supposedly adults protesting and if they cannot handle two lesbian on lookers in their space, that is something that shows clearly that they lack the impulse control to be out there protesting.

You said you haven't watched it I think? I'm not disputing that there was a crazy aggressive man in there who should have been turfed out. I'm just saying that rather than just standing by and watching the protest these girls actively got in there and weren't totally innocent either. It was a stupid thing to do and I think just stirred up trouble. Which some would say was why they did it.

I haven't watched it. But you seem intent to keep missing my point.

These lesbians walking around with cameras should not have been seen as provoking a violent or aggressive response. That is where I keep disagreeing with you. It was a public street , yes? It wasn't being stewarded where there was a group of people monitoring others coming in and out like the women's rallies and protests are? So, you are assuming they are being provocative just by being there. That is victim blaming by the way.

There were stewards and it wasn't just in a street. I think it was some sort of square. There were steps at the front where the speakers were standing. The sandwich board man and the lesbian went up to the front of the gathered group, on the steps or very near them so they were putting themselves front and centre. The lesbian pushed aside a woman and shoved a camera in her face, the woman didn't react. It was people standing together in a group and both girls got in and amongst them. It wasn't like these people were walking down the street. They were all standing together. The girls had to actually go and put themselves in that group. Why do that? If you haven't actually watched it how can you even comment on it?

I'm not victim blaming, I've acknowledged the aggressive man. But the girls played a part. If you're not going to watch it there's no point in discussing it. I'm going to have my tea.

We're there children there or are you referring to adult women when you say girls

Yes, that is an interesting question.

They were young women, not children. I had no idea from watching the video that they were lesbians and I don't know if the fact that they are lesbians is relevant. I have never seen them in any videos before. Is it known or just being assumed that they are lesbians? (Genuine question, not rhetorical.)

IMHO "Sidewalk Steve" did do a quietly provocative thing by going into the open space in front of the War Memorial from where the speakers were addressing the crowd.

He had no sooner arrived and stood quietly facing the crowd than a bunch of people rushed up, apparently to block the crowd from seeing him, or maybe to prevent him being centre stage if the event was being filmed?

Then the woman with the camera and dreadlocks rushed in and tried to put herself between him and the crowd pressing into him.

There was a fleeting moment when she moved in front of a woman with short hair who was holding a placard and when she was beside the woman she pointed her camera phone towards her. I am not surprised that the woman did not react because she did not appear to have been pushed, the camera seemed to be to the side of her rather than "in her face" and it was all over extremely quickly.

There seemed to be plenty of Stewards in attendance but they did not intervene to ask Steve to move and they did not have their crowd under control, which is the biggest part of their job. Instead, we saw a very familiar intimidatory manoeuvre whereby a group of people crowd in closely around an individual, blocking their view and blocking them from view of onlookers.

Relevant that Steve is a small, slight, quietly spoken older man. He stands out from the crowd, being very neatly dressed in a tweed waistcoat and flat cap and would be noticeable even without his Sandwich Board placards.

He spoke respectfully to those surrounding him, asking at least one person if they would like to speak to him and be interviewed away from the crowd. He showed he was still willing to communicate respectfully while the crowd pressed in, blocked his view, jostled him and held placards in front of his face.

That is a very unsafe situation with a mob surrounding an individual. While Steve looked only mildly surprised, the woman with the dreadlocks looked very worried about his safety and I can well understand why she rushed up to try to put some space between Steve and the people pressing in on him.

They said they were lesbians.

Fully agree.

@POWNewcastleEastWallsend It was even more ironic than that. From what the Nottingham YouTuber said about who invited him, it sounded like it was the TRA women at Nottingham Women's Aid (?) who contacted him out of the blue, suggesting that he come along to film them protesting the LWS event.
I am happy to be corrected but that is what I took from what the Nottingham YouTuber said.

Oh, I'll have to watch it again..I do remember it was quite painful to watch at first. When he encountered the TRA and they started questioning him he must have spent about 15 minutes explaining 'i received an email from your side inviting me to attend. You're having a protest and expecting some trouble?' I kept thinking No No, you've gone to the wrong people. Why would the TRA be expecting trouble from the other side?

That's why I thought it was LWS that had invited him. But you're right in that LWS have no need to invite random YouTubers (although in the comments in his video, a LWS attendee did say that he should have gone over to them and they would have happily takes to him). Women's aid makes more sense

KJK was supposed to set up at the Brian Clough statue but the TRA had already taken over the space prior to the meet so they were forced to set up on the opposite side of the square. I recall when Nottingham Live first started chatting with them he was agreeing with their stance but it was their behaviour, paranoia and subsequent nonsensical arguments that seemed to make him think 'eh'?? Then things turned very nasty. Not sure if the guy is autistic but it all started off well and he only reacted when they started telling him to eff off for no reason.

I watched a few more of Sandwichboard Steve's videos yesterday and they're hard and frustrating to watch. This small mild mannered man being surrounded and bullied by aggressive TRA's. Forcing him to leave areas. Saying they're marching him to the train station. That he has to leave the city. WTF! They don't own the streets or towns. Even the police refusing to help him.

But then again, listen to their slogans and mantras. There are many many more of us than you! Who's streets? Our streets!
No. They are not

They regularly organise aggressive counter protests to every women's event going. But react violently towards any peaceful opposition that attend theirs. A camera pointing at you might be provocative but it's not illegal and is in no way comparable to a punch in the face or hot soup thrown over you. Appalling behaviour.