Tommy's charity - utterly captured

[Callmejudith]

Received an email from Tommy's today promoting their new pregnancy advice for transgender and non binary parents - absolute drivel https://www.tommys.org/pregnancy-information/being-pregnant/pregnancy-trans-and-non-binary-parents?utmcampaign=Pregnancy%20for%20trans%20and%20non-binary%20parents%20-%20Not%20clicked&utmmcontent=transnonnbinarypregginfotexttlink&utmterm=&utmmmedium=email&utmsource=adestra

I suspect they've been captured for a while but I am so upset, I've raised thousands of pounds for them over the years

Just tell them the truth of the situation, it's not hard!!

I'm sorry but I don't get what you mean about denying the parent exists? The trans person is a whole person, an individual with many dimensions like all of us, theyre present. The one who has given birth ( the trans man) is still there as a parent, they haven't vanished. The situation can be explained to the child in much the same way as gay people have to explain why the child has two mums or two dads. Nobody is being erased and in fact the child has both biological parents present whereas the child of gay parents doesn't so in that way they are in a better situation if you like. Whatever the case, these things can be explained to a child.

Quote from Tommy’s feature on Freddy ‘I’m writing this blog post to share some practical information on my experience of becoming a dad through fertility treatment and pregnancy’.

Freddy is a mum, she carried the child in her womb for nine months, then she (presumably) pushed the poor mite out through the birth canal. She presumably doesn’t know who the father is as she used donated sperm, although I believe that donors cannot now hide their identity from one of their offspring if they come searching as an adult, at least in the UK.

’Becoming a Dad’ is just unscientific nonsense, and I doubt whether any Not for Profit that had the interests of a child at heart would encourage it.

And re : Two Daddies/ two Mummies , @Ymiryboo , at least the poor child is being told to recognise the correct terminology for the sex of those in loco parentis, even if one ( or in the case of adoption both) are not biologically related at all. I wonder what the space for ‘mother’ says on the birth certificate of the children of the famous gay male couples who employed a surrogate to achieve the baby? It can’t say ‘unknown’ because the doctors/ midwives/ nurse/ financial advisors would obviously know who the birth mother is, unless it all took place in a cupboard and the mother then disappeared *

• not a serious suggestion. Well, I hope not.

I agree. We have to look at this with common sense and a deep breath.

Also what do you mean about the trans parent you know lying that they haven't got a father?

The couple I know (woman + transwoman) deny that a father exists.

They tell their little kids that they are both their mummies and they don't have a daddy.

How is that not a lie and a denial that a father was involved in the child's creation? How is that not confusing?

As I said previously, I can see that you could, possibly, explain this to the kids in a way that makes (more) sense.

But they haven't. And I think that to lie to your children like that is an awful thing to do.

Yes I agree with you, that is wrong. I would hope that isn't a stance most people would take.

Thank you.

After all the insistence that TWAW I don't share your optimism, I'm afraid.

How would that play out, though, if the mother is so utterly convinced that she is actually a man/father?

Is she going to tell her young child as they grow up that they must only ever call her Dad, but that she is in reality their Mum - albeit they are never, ever allowed to acknowledge that?

Every time somebody askes about their Mummy, they are expected to say "I don't have a mummy" - leading to lots of sympathy and people trying to tread very carefully to avoid traumatising them, wholly unnecessarily - when they do in fact have a mummy, it's just that she insists that everybody call her 'he' and pretends that she is a man.

I'm sceptical about it all; I rather think it would go more like "Some dads are different from others" or similar. If she is so determined that she wants to prevent adults from acknowledging her as a woman and a mother, I really cannot see her spilling the beans and being honest to a suggestible little child.

It certainly sounds confusing and not psychologically great for the child. Not sure what happens when the child comes up against other children and families, and the knowledge that a female person must have given birth to them.

The word for a woman who has given birth to a child is mother.

It is cruel to deliberately deprive a child of their mother. A women claiming that she is not her child’s mother is prioritising herself over the child - completely.

Cruel is the word. Imagine standing there and outright denying that you are your child's mother - in fact denying that the child has a mother at all - the child that you carried for nine months and then gave birth to.

What kind of an abusive person does that actually make you?

This is untrue. There are multipleorganisations and individuals that have spoken publicly about trans people being the opposite to their birth sex.

Look here is Ruth Hunt the then head of Stonewall saying Trans women are women.
Did you want more examples.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/may/19/ruth-hunt-stonewall-moral-responsibility-fight-trans-people

Edit: my quote didn't come through. This post is in relation to OP saying Trans people never think they are the opposite sex.

Yes. Given the lengths to which even casual acquaintances are expected to ‘respect the identity’ of the mother who identifies as a man, I’m not sure there would be any space for truth in the explanations given to the kids.

Or at the very least they would be inconsistent and incoherent attempts at explaining things away like the ones I gave my kids when they asked tricky questions about Father Christmas (except that I wasn’t trying to make out that I wasn’t actually their mother)

Yes, like India Willoughby “I am a REAL WOMAN” (while jabbing his finger aggressively at Amanda Barrie on Big Brother) or Dr Beth Upton (and countless other including also India Willoughby, “I am biological ie not a robot and I’m a woman so I’m a biological woman”

Or barrister Robin Moira White “I am a somatic woman”

Penny Mordaunt stood at the dispatch box and announced that “transwomen are women, transmen are men”

Have people actually been doing this? If it was me in that situation I would try my best to explain that as I gave birth to them I am their mother but I actually present as a man. I feel sure there must be a way to do this without distressing the child any more than gay people do. But perhaps I have the fault of thinking the best of people. I can't imagine why they would want to make things even more difficult for the child. As I'm not in that situation as I imagine many of us here aren't, it's hard to really get a grip on it. I also wonder how many trans men are actually having babies, probably not many and I think it's right they can access services that if nothing else will help them navigate this part of parenting for the sake of the child.

@MoodyAndBlue Well lets analyse what you just said

I present as a man? What does that mean? I wear trousers have short hair like erm manly thingy things know how to use a drill bla bla bla bla…..

or in the more extreme. I am your mother but i am a man because i take testosterone, am bald have a beard bla bla

Lesbians and gay men. We are your family but i love somebody of the same sex. Your bio dad/mum is xx.

Daddy (mummy man) how can i succeed in life as a girl if you do not want to be one.

What a load of utter shite.

I m not trans so I can't speak for how it feels to be trans. I still think those women ( trans men) are entitled to help and information and they will definitely need it. However I'm not sure how big a number of trans men we are talking about or how big an issue is. I really can't say how they do or should deal with it other than being honest
I also don't think all gay and lesbian couple can say your mum,/ dad is xx, they will not always know who the donor is.
I'm sorry you find my comments a load of utter shite.

@MoodyAndBlue it is utter shite as is your follow up because your view is not child centred.

Children need to know where they came from and who they are genetically related too believe me i know this from professional and personal experiences.

that is on an emotional level.

And then the issue of commodifying babies and womens wombs.

leave alone the potential risks of not knowing about potential genetical disorders.

Whole lot od assumptions and drama in these comments.

If my son ever asks why he doesnt have a mother, at 10 yo he doesn't seem remotely interested and is used to many different families being around, but If that changes I would answer in an age appropriate way taking in all the ways we think about the world i.e science, religion, social etc.

I do not lie to my child and never will. However, mother is no more important title than father, rabbi or any other it's showing up and actions that make one a parent giving birth is the easy part and not really something that should be given status over loving and supporting your child no matter what. If you disagree with that your opinion is meaningless to ne as you're obvio6a terrible parent.

In Judaism, mothers are very important - for many reasons, but not least because being Jewish passes down the maternal line.

@Ymiryboo it is obvious to me that you are a pretend personae, and that you are not jewish, as the above poster commented. It is also obvious that you are a biological man.

As for my own circumstances.

I have two adult children, who are successful in their own chosen professions, they have no mental health issues and are in settled relationships.

I have three grandchildren, as well.

We all know what sex we are

So you can put that one in your pipe and smoke it.

But they are in Scotland

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/scottish-doctors-approved-breast-removal-for-51-trans-teenagers-qvkmz8r2c

So how does all this work with gay and lesbians children then, you're not seriously telling me they all know who their donor parents are and all about them. Your argument doesn't follow. And I have been talking about the children of gay, lesbian and trans people so I don't know where you get the idea I'm not centering children.
Anyway seeing as you're so rude and unpleasant because I said something you don't like and think my comments are utter shite please don't bother engaging with me thank you. Hope being nasty makes you feel big.

But hopefully this is not happening in Scot land now

abosulute disgrace that this ever happened to children in my country