Mumsnet Obsession With Penises

[Manfreglory]

My controversial opinion is that most of the Mums who obsess here over penises, uteruses and chromosomes, would pick more important and interesting topics if their own child was trans.

Well quite.

Mothers send their 8 year old boys into men's toilets out of respect for women's needs. These little kids will be way more vulnerable than 'transwomen' and yet I never hear complaints from this quarter.

I sometimes mention here that I know a man well into adulthood who still avoids public toilets because of an encounter in his teens.

I don't believe that my friend should have a special pass entitling him to use the ladies, and it wouldn't occur to him to ask for one. Because he understands you've only my word for it that he's lovely and harmless.

yeah. I've said this before - I'm certain that men's loos the places I go to are safe. You can tell that because I send my sons in there.

I really don't think they're full of men in frocks getting raped by other men (which would be statistically likely if men with a gender identity were 1000 times more likely to be raped in the gents than the average woman, which is I think pretty much word for word what @Manfreglory said). I dunno why I'm bothering to pick up on it really, they are clearly a purveyor of absolute mince

Things were complicated when male homosexual acts were illegal and some public toilets and some outdoor areas became coded as pick-up places, which made them targets for homophobic attack, and as places where male prostitution happened. The vulnerability of prostitutes to sexual assault that exceeds anything they have contractually consented to is well known.

Prostitution is a big factor in the high rate of attacks on transwomen in Brazil and of assaults on transwomen (often carried out by other transwomen) in the USA.

I'm not sure to what extent that would be a thing in 21st century western Europe where everyone has phones.

It certainly isn't a reason to invite transwomen into women's spaces.

There are no centralised statistics. I have spent a lot of time collating information because I have asked the government and police they have said information is not collated like this. This is why it is so infuriating when people don’t realise why design matters.

I believe the males that are most likely to be raped and sexually assaulted in men’s loos are boys. The youngest in my database is aged 4 in a supermarket toilet. That’s why it’s best we don’t have completely private toilets in the men’s or women’s. There was even a set of toilets in Rochdale ‘Smith Street’ toilets where council officials allegedly knew it was going on as they could view the toilets from their offices - it was organised and men from quite a wide area were using schoolboys in there.

It’s well established and not controversial to say men are more likely to have sex in toilets.
That’s why it’s completely right there should rightly be an exception for boys to go in with their mothers and vice versa. It is also why I don’t think ‘toilets should be private so adults of a different sex to their child are afforded privacy’ works as a reason either. The door gaps are there to prevent misuse as most people (Rochdale officials allegedly withstanding) would raise the alarm.

And even if there are such stats, women’s facilities are not refuges for men who don’t want to use the men’s.

I don’t care if there is only a tiny percentage of trans women in the entire world who are rapists, we don’t know who they are so they all have to stay out.

@SidewaysOtterabsolutely right. But this trope gets waved around as if it had substance so I wondered if there were any actual examples - I’ve never come across one.

Does the name ' Smith Street' refer to Rochdale MP Cyril Smith? A close friend of Mrs Thatcher. As was Savile. I imagine Smith was regarded as untouchable in Rochdale.

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/cambridge-house-knowl-view-rochdale/part-c-knowl-view-school/section-1/smith-street-toilets.html

No it’s the actual street name. Here’s the link. Depressing.

Is the OP saying that men who identify as not men are getting raped by men in men's toilets because they are men who identify as not men, or that they are getting raped because they are there?

To paraphrase Julie Long, if men who are pretending to be women are scared to use the men's toilets then maybe they should stop pretending to be women.

I see OP came back to tell us off again and yet failed to give her view on Tunnock products or marmalade 😕

I really, really get the rage at the idea that women are being told that men who identify as women are most at risk of male violence.

I believe they get away with this lie because Violence against women is so normalised.

While waiting for my post to be approved by Mumsnet . . . it included several links, one of which contains this information (link not included here):

Trans stats debunking thread - section on sex crimes committed against trans identified individuals
2019 - Twitter/X notthefunkind

I also have been told quite frequently that TW are somehow more exposed to sexual violence than women. Transequality’s survey reports that 37% of TW were victims of sexual assaults in their lifetime, in the US in 2015.

It’s less than all women AND gay/bi men, according to US data from 2010: Bisexual women and men were found to be particularly at risk of sexual violence (74.9% and 47.4% respectively reported one or more sexual assaults in their lifetime).

Ofsted (when they tried to work out what was happening in schools after the Everyone’s Invited campaign), found is there’s no centralised database even for schools. Girls were the ones that were sexually assaulted most but typically didn’t report it - so much so that they advised that every school should just assume it is happening.

There should be proper statistics that are centralised to show what’s going on - if you are going to change toilets around the country, it should be evidence based not based on the views of the people who write in to a survey.