Why don't trans women care if women feel unsafe?

[ItsCoolForCats]

I listened to the Stephen Nolan show earlier on BBC Sounds. They were discussing the FA ban on male players in the female category. A lady from SEEN in Sport was on and was great.

Then there were two transwomen on (one who is involved with Mermaids). There was lots of talk about their feelings and some quite infuriating twisting of scientific fact (women come in all shapes and sizes, so transwomen have no advantage). But one thing that came up several times was how they didn't feel safe using male facilities. Stephen Nolan did the faux naive thing quite effectively and tried to turn it around to get them to consider other people's viewpoints, unsuccessfully. It was back to their feelings again. The levels of entitlement was quite astonishing.

Why don't they ever consider women who feel unsafe sharing spaces with males? Is it because these women are just bigots that need to be re-educated and reframe their trauma?

You do realise that we've all seen the forums and the threads where men share their exciting sexual experiences with photographs about raiding sanpro bins to get tampons to insert in their anus, and how great it is to find one still warm?

And the masturbating into women's lingerie in M&S and putting it back, or ejaculating on the cubicle floor, for the sexual excitement of a woman walking on it in her bare feet or trying on knickers with his semen on?

And the selfies of masturbating in the women's toilets in a cubicle next to women, or with the door open? Or putting on lingerie in women's changing rooms with the curtains not quite closed with the hope for the desired sexual experience that a woman will walk in and be shocked, upset or scold him?

The article in the Guardian by the man who liked to buy women's lingerie in shops where he could find the youngest possible assistant, talk in depth with her about his choices and sizes to involve her as much as possible and ended the article with the bit about how he likes to give her a smile that says he knows she's not enjoying it but he is?

I get that this is a belief system based on denying reality and other people's reality, but trying to get other people to deny the evidence in front of them about men's behaviour just strengthens the case as to why women need very tough protections in law from men. Particularly the men who want to be in their spaces, using women for their experiences, be this emotional ones or otherwise.

If they don't, why do they post triumphant photos of themselves in the womens, showing themselves marking their territory in a spiteful way? No actual females take selfies in public toilets.

And what about Rose, the male in the Darlington nurse case who was smirking at Karen's discomfort when he had his penis sticking out of his underwear? As Karen said, she recognised that smirk. It was the same smirk her abuser gave her when she was a child. It was a delight that she was uncomfortable but had no power to say anything.

These males (the ones that do this, not all transwomen) enjoy the power they have over women; they know they're making women uncomfortable, and they know women cannot speak up. Hence their grinning and smirking.

There are 2-4 times transwomen as there are transmen, just saying......

You don't seen transmen kicking up a fuss

Well yes… and of course, telling women 1, 2 or 3 makes some people feel better about themselves and ever so righteous.

They may not see just how emotionally manipulative those three responses are, but each time they post like that, others do see it. And it helps others understand more and more why those pleas or demands make them uncomfortable.

To the woman afraid of being dragged out of toilets under suspicion of being a man -

This is the situation that men have dumped on women, in the selfish seeking of their own needs. It's a PITA but this is part and parcel of the whole problem.

Whatever women do at this point, there are going to be inconveniences and distresses for them.

But some of us occasionally having to endure an embarrassing experience, or more likely need to reassure another woman that they are not a man seeking to deceive her or to break her boundaries is a smaller harm than many women being entirely excluded, and all women having lost their rights and protections to any single sex space.

Unfortunately women will be left mopping up the mess that men have created. Again.

Strange how when everything was going TRA way there weren’t stories of ‘tall’ women or ‘women with short hair’ being dragged out of toilets but now, well gosh darn it it’s happening all the time

is it bollocks!

its just men using women as human shields again

Obviously ‘I am a girl’. Not a firm.

Nice men understand consent from women.

Not nice men overstep boundaries and conceal themselves, and then turn around and say the women are unkind if they object.

I do not care if Mummy says their little boys is the loveliest person ever. Their actions say different.

And yes, I really have heard this line to death whilst also being emotionally blackmailed to try and make me reframe my entire childhood and identity.

Women should not do anything under the banner of coercion and manipulation. And thats what TRAs try to do.

Women saying no is not transphobic. Its protecting ourselves.

She wishes to identify as female, I’m sure lots do already, without being noticed, or at least turn a blind eye, that’s kindness, and empathy.
i’m sure no one goes through this process without really needing to

How is it kind or empathetic towards women to force them to accept the opposite sex in their single sex spaces?

Your family member is highly unlikely to ever blend in among women, due to being male.

What process? The vast majority of TW have neither surgery or take hormones. There is no process other than wearing stereotypically female clothes and presenting in a stereotypically female way

and you know what? That’s a good thing. People should not be having hugely invasive life altering surgery and buggering about with their endrocine system when there’s nothing physically wrong with them

They are men. They cannot transition to become women. I don’t think it’s particularly kind to lead people to believe they can be something that in reality, they just can’t be. It sets them up to fail and that’s not kind. Being kind only seems to go one way too. The vile comments about the nurse in Darlington, on the reddit threads are pretty eye opening. She is “weaponising trauma” but every time we are told to be kind it seems to be to support the trauma of transpeople. How is it that they can weaponise their trauma but a raped woman must just ssshhh and get over it?

If its not narcissistic personality and behaviour, what is it?

They know there is at least a sub group of trans who are abusive, are fetishists, do behave inappropriately. I've spoken to enough men with gender to know they do see it. Men have told me they dont go to trans groups because they include men who are obviously dressed inappropriately and talk of nothing else but their sexual excitement.

When the prison trans wings were talked about, they didnt want to be placed alongside karen white.

Men with gender will say that female only sports and refuges are fair, but changing rooms, toilets and employment opportunities should be 'inclusive'. So they do know sex is real, but want to control when its relevant.

All of my discussions with trans indicate that they know sex is real, know there's a problem with abuse and know why women want space away from men, but somehow think that they, not women have the rights to set boundaries.

Was the nurse in yesterday's article failing to be kind and turn a blind eye when a man with a trans identity insisted on being in a changing room with her with his genitals on display, asking her repeatedly when she was going to take her clothes off, and when the hospital authorities told her he would be present at her gynecological surgery, her vagina displayed to him against her wishes and consent while she was unconscious and in the middle of legal procedings against him, or she would lose access to her needed health care?

It's no good saying 'it's just one bad apple', its exactly this attitude and dismissal of women, and phrases like 'be kind' and a demand that nice women don't say anything that puts women in these terrible positions.

I'd add that however lovely and well intentioned anyone's Nigel is, supporting him in a belief that he is entitled to enablement and service from all women, and that he need have no regard for them as people, their needs, their feelings, their inclusion and access, their histories, their identities, their lives? That he should invade their spaces without conscience because the good ones will be fine about it and the ones who aren't don't matter?

Well it's not disproving the question in the OP is it? It's demonstrating some of the why.

Not to mention that as someone's sweet Nigel enters, Karen White and Isla Bryson are right behind him, because he's opened the door for them.

she chooses to have hormones and may have surgery, she’s in Europe, young too her body, her choice.
Much happier now, I’m very happy for her, why wouldn’t I be?

If you mean " Not buying this bullshit" , then possibly.

Whether someone 'needs' to go through the 'process' or not is irrelevant.

Just because a male person wishes to identify as female, doesn't mean that they are female. It doesn't mean they should be in female single sex spaces.

Why the fuck should any female person 'turn a blind eye' to allow a male person access to somewhere they shouldn't be just to make that male person happy?

This is not about your niece though, I’m sure she isn’t a threat to anyone - nobody on here hates trans people, I know I don’t anyway, it’s not about individuals.
How about you read through some of the threads on here with an open mind and think about the bigger picture.
Women can’t give up their rights because of a tiny minority of people.
Men should not be in women’s spaces, prisons, societies or sports because it’s not safe or fair. Simple as that really

Readers Note: No male person can ever live or experience life as a woman.

They can only ever experience life as a male person who believes they are a woman.

Even when they 'act' like a woman, they are acting as they believe a 'woman' should act. Which is fucking misogynistic when you unpick it!

Even if they are treated 'as a woman' by some people, they are being treated as a 'male who presents as a woman and believes they are a woman'. Because their every reaction is based on that. Not on them being female in any way. But based on their own reaction developed over years of them reacting to the way they interact with society and themselves and how others interact with them while having a male body and a mind that processes stimuli in that male body.

Even when they have extreme body modifications, it is to be their own concept of what a female looks like to them. It is not what a female is. They are still processing stimuli and making decisions based on the way they interact with society and themselves and how others interact with them while having a male body.

How can it be any other way?

The only way a person can experience life as a woman, is to have a female body, formed around the production of large gametes, even if it doesn't produce those and to navigate their life based on the decisions they and society makes that revolve around them having that body.

A male can conceptualise what it might be like to be a female, but that is all it ever is - their concept of being female.

They may do it because they don't feel they fit into how they conceptualise how a male person interacts with the world (ie. their own stereotypes around being male) or they do it because they want to be seen as a female (using their own stereotypes of how a female navigates life). It really doesn't matter though. Their motivation is irrelevant to the outcome. And I consider the outcome can only be described as misogyny.

Which is that they will always be just a male who believes they are something they are objectively not.

How can the material reality be any different? This is why someone's gender is only based on someone's philosophical belief. And philosophical beliefs are fine for people to hold, but not one person in the UK has to comply with another's philosophical belief.

The logic cannot be any different than that I am afraid. But apparently, we should just let these male people into female single sex spaces.

There was nothing to agree or disagree with. The Supreme Court were not passing a value judgment. They were tasked with creating clarity in the understanding and application of the law...which they did, having spent considerable time doing so.

It was Stonewall which spent years trying to obscure and manipulate the law, and in doing so rode roughshod over the already established rights and protections of the female sex. Women and girls.

In fairness, I am pretty much misandrist these days. When they stop raping and killing us and each other, I'll stop hating them.

Because they are entitled, angry , dangerous men.

And this is a great example of how language is used to blur boundaries, to gaslight people into accepting situations and policies that are harmful to female people.

When people use terms like ‘woman’, ‘daughter’, ‘sister’ or ‘niece’ in a discussion about allowing male people into female single sex spaces, of course it is emotionally manipulative because people have categorised that person as being female, even though they are male. There is a significant difference between the following statements:

My son uses the female single sex toilets, he feels safer there and women need to accept him there.

My daughter uses the female single sex toilets, she feels safer there and women need to accept her there.

Even this next one evokes little dissonance compared the first one.

My daughter believes they are female and uses female single sex toilets, she feels safer there and women need to accept her there.

Accurate language is important for discussions such as this.

Same.