“Why aren’t you getting changed”. Man asks female Darlington nurse this 3 times in female changeroom

[CrocsNotDocs]

More details re the Darlington nurses. I don’t know what to say. This is outrageous. Just fucking outrageous.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14698557/I-begged-bosses-not-let-trans-nurse-invaded-changing-room-intimate-operation-refused-didnt-want-hurt-feelings.html

Everyone has been gaslit into believing these men are somehow not men.

yes. What people do is more important than what they say. Men like Rose invade women's privacy even though they know it upsets women.

they might say they're doing it because they're really women, but that's bullshit (obvs). and what they're doing is just what male predators do all the time, everywhere.

I really can't believe that any grown ups seriously went for the 'but I'm really as laydey' thing. Except I can of course, because sexism.

Not an important point, but it just occurred to me that not one of the usual moronic scolds has been brave enough to pop up on this thread to attempt to mansplain away this vicious atrocity. When you see the psychopathy of this ideology laid bare like this there is absolutely nothing they can say to weasel or gaslight even the weakest "justification". And they know it.

I cannot fault Karen’s bravery in talking about her abuse to help the be kinders understand why women need single sex spaces. However, I am so angry that another woman has been pushed into the position of having to disclose something so private. The TRAs endlessly assert trans people’s need for privacy but show no respect for the privacy of the women and girls’ whose spaces they want to colonise. Along with many other posters I am now out of sympathy. Trans people need to lobby for their own solutions. It’s not for women to fix this.

It's absolutely disgusting. How can they not see how they come across?

Yes. The NHS has been captured by predators for many years. They even had (still have?) policies to wedge male rapists, paedophiles and other sex offenders onto women's wards:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4313090-Telegraph-Patient-safety-fears-as-NHS-allows-trans-sex-offenders-in-female-only-wards

Precisely. He wore boxer shorts with holes in them? How womanly of him.

He's clearly a predator.

It's a variation on the "perfect" rape victim. A woman cannot say no to a trans identifying man unless she has an extremely good reason. And even when she provides one, well, it wasn't that bad and she should be over it by now. Why "destroy" the career of the man for a "mistake". Her career doesn't count, of course.

Cried reading that and I’m not one to cry at the drop of a hat.
This makes me so angry
Karen and the other nurses are so brave in standing up to this insanity.
Shame on the NHS
Shame on every singe person who allowed this to happen

Always the same words. Coupled with the swearing, it’s clear that some of those who are blinded by their belief (that a man can be a woman, and everyone else needs to go along with this too - or else…) suffer not only from having a poor vocabulary but a poor intellect too.

The scolds will flock to any thread with JKR, toilets or pronouns in the title but threads like this, the ET threads, threads about rape crisis services etc etc and they are conspicuous in their absence.

They're just cowards and can't back up any of their shite arguments.

This.

I was molested by a teenage boy when I was about 7 and miscarried after another teenage male punched me in the stomach (during very early pregnancy - it happened at work).

My GP requested a female gynaecologist for me, but the follow-up hysteroscopy was performed by a man. The procedure took place in a full operating theatre.

I disclosed to a female nurse before seeing the male gynaecologist. He was lovely. The rest of the team was all-female and they were all so understanding. I couldn't have tolerated being in the same room as a creep.

I was just thinking the same. I noticed that there was none of the usual “not everyone on mumsnet is a transphobe” on the sandy peggy tribunal threads either. It’s not easy to keep up the “be kind” shite up on threads like this. Maybe they should think about that when they are calling women bigots and hand waiving men into our spaces. Maybe they could think about women like Karen who deserve our support.

Isn't it telling that being a bigot or prejudiced is SO much worse than being the sort of man who wants women to unwillingly undress in front of him

I think the lesson they learned was that it was just one man and he was very, very bad.

They didn’t learn any lessons about across the board strategies that prevent abuse, because that would be inconvenient and they don’t care.

I am sure that people will still argue that everything needs to be done on a case by case basis, and that the answer was reasonable adjustment for Karen and the hospital did that by providing the cupboard (leaving aside that this didn’t comply with the letter or spirit of the law, and that it isn’t practical)

More people are talking about it now.

My older cousin brought up the subject. "I'm a father of three girls and grandfather of two. It's obvious to anyone that these men who insist on going into women's spaces are dangerous."

Saying that Rose would be happy to re-educate the nurses just proves he’s not the poor vulnerable transwoman we’re always told they are. Can you imagine any other work situation where the persecuted individual - who was being bullied or singled out for being female/gay/not white - would be asked to educate the bully in person on why they have rights? And them being happy to do so? It would be utterly unacceptable and offensive.

It’s a tactic to deflect attention away from the truly bad behaviour.

Blimey. Just Blimey.

What an awful, awful situation for poor Karen to have been forced into; not just being forced to change with despicable Rose.

I imagine she didn't tell her children about her horrific experiences, so as to protect them. Now, she's had to tell them that it's all come out in the newspaper and to explain how and why.

I don't hold out much hope, but all the bastards who have put her and her colleagues in this impossible situation ought to hang their heads in shame. They ought to be sacked, but sadly, I don't see that happening.

It's not just a pervert's charter, it's a bully's charter as well.

I hope those ladies smash them into touch.

When I needed gynae care, I got a phone call from the department admin - they'd sent out a letter allocating my hysteroscopy to a male doctor, but had just noticed my request for a female doctor.

They could do that, but it would delay the procedure. I acquiesced to seeing a man.

Reminds me of the Edinburgh Rape Crisis CEO or whoever - a man, natch - telling rape victims to “reframe their trauma”.

I did look, and although upsetting it's kind of helpful to see that you're dealing with people almost entirely without empathy and totally focused on themselves. It confirms how tough women need to be to maintain their rights.

Bloody hell. I am in shock reading that. Karen, you are so brave and I am in awe of you for speaking up. Thank you for fighting for all women's rights, and I hope to God you win this case.

People without empathy - isn’t this the definition of a sociopath?

There’s a lot of them about!

No. Not 'witness'. Participate in. At the business end.

But yes, it is fucking outrageous.