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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowlings latest tweet. Just wow!

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 03/05/2025 20:36

I've copied it in full.
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw&s=19

In light of recent open letters from academia and the arts criticising the UK's Supreme Court ruling on sex-based rights, it's possibly worth remembering that nobody sane believes, or has ever believed, that humans can change sex, or that binary sex isn't a material fact. These letters do nothing but remind us of what we know only too well: that pretending to believe these things has become an elitist badge of virtue.

I often wonder whether the signatories of such letters have to quieten their consciences before publicly boosting a movement intent on removing women's and girls' rights, which bullies gay people who admit openly they don't want opposite sex partners, and campaigns for the continued sterilisation of vulnerable and troubled kids. Do they feel any qualms at all while chanting the foundational lie of their religion: Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men?

I have no idea. All I know for sure is that it's a complete waste of time telling a gender activist that their favourite slogan is self-contradictory nonsense, because the lie is the whole point. They're not repeating it because it's true - they know full well it's not true - but because they believe they can make it true, sort of, if they force everyone else to agree. The foundational lie functions as both catechism and crucifix: the set form of words that obviates the tedious necessity of coming up with your own explanation of why you're one of the Godly, and an exorcist's weapon which will defeat demonic facts and reason, and promote the advance of righteous pseudoscience and sophistry.

Some argue that signatories of these sorts of letters are motivated by fear: fear for their careers, of course, but also fear of their co-religionists, who include angry, narcissistic men who threaten and sometimes enact violence on non-believers; back-stabbing colleagues ever ready to report wrongthink; the online shamers and doxxers and rape threateners, and, of course, the influential zealots in the upper echelons of liberal professions (though we can quibble whether they're actually liberal at all, given the draconian authoritarianism that seems to have engulfed so many). Gender ideology could give medieval Catholicism a run for its money when it comes to punishing heretics, so isn't it common sense to keep your head down and recite your Hail Mulvaneys?

But before we start feeling too sorry for any cowed and fearful TWAWites who're TERFy on the sly, let's not forget what a high proportion of them have willingly snatched up pitchforks and torches to join the inquisitional purges. Call me lacking in proper womanly sympathy, but I find the harm they've enabled and in some cases directly championed or funded - the hounding and shaming of vulnerable women, the forced loss of livelihoods, the unregulated medical experiment on minors - tends to dry up my tears at source.

History is littered with the debris of irrational and harmful belief systems that once seemed unassailable. As Orwell said, 'Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.' Gender ideology may have embedded itself deeply into our institutions, where it's been imposed, top-down, on the supposedly unenlightened, but it is not invulnerable.

Court losses are starting to stack up. The condescension, overreach, entitlement and aggression of gender activists is eroding public support daily. Women are fighting back and winning significant victories. Sporting bodies have miraculously awoken from their slumber and remembered that males tend to be larger, stronger and faster than females. Parts of the medical establishment are questioning cutting healthy breasts off teenaged girls is really the best way to fix their mental health problems.

One seemingly harmless little white lie - Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men - uttered in most cases without any real thought at all, and a few short years later, people who think of themselves as supremely virtuous are typing 'yes, rapists' pronouns are absolutely the hill I'll die on,' rubbing shoulders with those who call for women to be hanged and decapitated for wanting all-female rape crisis centres, and furiously denying clear and mounting evidence of the greatest medical scandal in a century.

I wonder if they ever ask themselves how they got here, and I wonder whether any of them will ever feel shame.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?s=19&t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw

OP posts:
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36
Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 10:04

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:54

Yes.

I hope that society solves this dreadful culture war with third spaces. It's obvious that they are very much needed.

I wonder if places will move away from the current toilet model which is one large room containing lots of cubicles, to lots of separate and totally enclosed loos that everyone uses, like you get in Waterstone's and Starbucks. Swimming pools and sports centres should have separate rooms for transpeople, and I wouldn't have thought hospitals and prisons would have any trouble designating spaced for trans people, if they wanted to.

No thank you.

I and others use that female only public space in toilets for doing things that require no male people to be in it, that doesn't fit neatly into a 'fully contained cubicle'. Please don't make the assumption that these spaces can be removed based on your own needs which seem to be well catered for in an enclosed cubicle.

Here is my list.

I have had to use the toilet while having a pram / pushchair jammed into the door with groceries.

I have had to have my mum use the public toilet because the disable toilet was not available and had her wheelchair jammed in the door because I couldn't leave her sit to move it and shut the door.

I have had breastmilk leaks / children's vomit / food spilled on my clothes and needed to have an unbuttoned top to dry the top under the hand drier.

I have come across other women quite regularly washing out their tops or their skirts etc and drying them enough to put back on .

I have friends who have miscarried in toilets and needed assistance and for that to be female people to make it more comfortable.

There are reasons for the gap under the door too that includes ensuring the quickest reaction time for getting help for someone who has fallen, and may be unconscious and may die if they don't receive immediate care.

That you have not experienced this doesn't mean it is not happening. I am glad that you have never needed to do this things, it is uncomfortable and can be quite humiliating. But at least, in a female only toilet, it is a little better.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:05

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:58

Again, though, a generalisation about a group doesn't mean that someone who doesn't fit the generalisation isn't part of that group. I don't wear makeup or skirts or heels. It has no impact whatsoever on me being a woman and a mother.

I explained this upthread in a post steelmanning your argument about 'living as a woman'.

But I'm not saying that mode of dress makes anyone any more or less of a woman. I'm saying that thanks to our societal conditioning, IF a TW happens to like skirts and makeup and such, she'd be much freer in our society to do that post-transition than being an unaltered man and doing it. And that's thanks to our silly social conditioning.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 10:05

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:00

No, I don't agree with them. I'm fine sharing with transwomen. However, since many women do not feel that way, I think third spaces are the answer, since women's feelings matter too, not just transwomen's.

So you still believe that JKR and the Supreme Court are transphobic?

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 04/05/2025 10:06

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:57

And yet, @StuckUpPrincess declared last night that JKR and the SC judgement was transphobic?

And yet, it seems that the poster agrees with the very things that JKR and the SC judgement supports? I am confused.

We all are!

BackToLurk · 04/05/2025 10:06

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:41

I don't understand what you're saying is ridiculous.

I'm saying that I'm OK with trans women, because I believe most of them are genuine. But I appreciate that not all women feel that way, so I think third spaces are the answer. Outside of the spaces issue, I think trans folk should live however they please.

You’ve said that ‘genuine’ transwomen ‘feel like they’re a woman inside’ and yet when pressed on what that feeling amounts to you come back to culturally specific roles. That suggests that had that ‘genuine’ transwoman been born in a different place they would feel differently. They would still be male though, wherever they were born. Trying to define men and women as a feeling therefore is ridiculous and incoherent.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 04/05/2025 10:06

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:00

No, I don't agree with them. I'm fine sharing with transwomen. However, since many women do not feel that way, I think third spaces are the answer, since women's feelings matter too, not just transwomen's.

What part of the judgment don’t you agree with?

Datun · 04/05/2025 10:07

and I wouldn't have thought hospitals and prisons would have any trouble designating spaces for trans people, if they wanted to.

FFS!! People are being abandoned in corridors because of lack of NHS resources. Jesus wept. Can you drag your eyes off the fucking men for one nanosecond??

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 10:07

Datun · 04/05/2025 10:04

She's also been told how awful she is for not setting up any women's charities!

Yeah, this is what I meant by people using her as a signifier or a cipher to stand in for every woman they secretly rage against and hate and despise.

The accusations often have absolutely no connection to reality and aren't basing their raging on anything real, it's just projecting onto this made-up monster in their heads that they've pinned JKR's face onto.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 10:08

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 04/05/2025 10:06

What part of the judgment don’t you agree with?

This poster is making a lot of contradictory assertions, repeatedly. The internal logic doesn't hang at all, and many points are repeated over and over even after the poster appears to have gone back on them. With respect, I'm not going to engage anymore.

Datun · 04/05/2025 10:09

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:05

But I'm not saying that mode of dress makes anyone any more or less of a woman. I'm saying that thanks to our societal conditioning, IF a TW happens to like skirts and makeup and such, she'd be much freer in our society to do that post-transition than being an unaltered man and doing it. And that's thanks to our silly social conditioning.

Conditioning reinforced across the board by Trans ideology. There will be no validation for a man in heels and make-up, if ALL men wore heels and make up

ThisHangrySheep · 04/05/2025 10:09

@Lostcat

“They tried to implement apartheid in South Africa, but it did not last.”

Your appropriation of race oppression,
exploitation and prejudice is repulsive and offensive to Black women. Not only does your “community” wish to wear Womanface you also wish to pretend your ancestors were Black!

Why do you try to collect others’ identities like a serial killer collects macabre trophies?

You are parasitical on others’ sufferings and overcomings to try to synthesise something to fill the empty space where a rounded personality should be and it’s morally obscene.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 10:11

Datun · 04/05/2025 10:07

and I wouldn't have thought hospitals and prisons would have any trouble designating spaces for trans people, if they wanted to.

FFS!! People are being abandoned in corridors because of lack of NHS resources. Jesus wept. Can you drag your eyes off the fucking men for one nanosecond??

I think we can see just how disconnected this thinking is.

Look at the questions that remain unanswered. It has to be pointing out clearly to those reading along that this is a faith issue now. That despite all the acknowledgement that no person can change sex, and that some people have needs that require single sex spaces to remain that way, there is this disconnected doubling down that is based on emotion.

It is like a script across a thousand threads now.

BiologicalRobot · 04/05/2025 10:11

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:45

"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman" - says SdB.

You think she’d be into the JKR simplisms “woman= adult, human, female”.

I highly doubt it.

< snorts>

I know I five pages behind but for fucks sake Lostcsts, do you really have to shout out how dumb you are?

One is born a girl, who becomes a woman.

Datun · 04/05/2025 10:11

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 10:08

This poster is making a lot of contradictory assertions, repeatedly. The internal logic doesn't hang at all, and many points are repeated over and over even after the poster appears to have gone back on them. With respect, I'm not going to engage anymore.

Yes, as other people have noted, you can't reason someone out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into. And this poster appears to have emoted themselves into this position.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:12

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 10:04

No thank you.

I and others use that female only public space in toilets for doing things that require no male people to be in it, that doesn't fit neatly into a 'fully contained cubicle'. Please don't make the assumption that these spaces can be removed based on your own needs which seem to be well catered for in an enclosed cubicle.

Here is my list.

I have had to use the toilet while having a pram / pushchair jammed into the door with groceries.

I have had to have my mum use the public toilet because the disable toilet was not available and had her wheelchair jammed in the door because I couldn't leave her sit to move it and shut the door.

I have had breastmilk leaks / children's vomit / food spilled on my clothes and needed to have an unbuttoned top to dry the top under the hand drier.

I have come across other women quite regularly washing out their tops or their skirts etc and drying them enough to put back on .

I have friends who have miscarried in toilets and needed assistance and for that to be female people to make it more comfortable.

There are reasons for the gap under the door too that includes ensuring the quickest reaction time for getting help for someone who has fallen, and may be unconscious and may die if they don't receive immediate care.

That you have not experienced this doesn't mean it is not happening. I am glad that you have never needed to do this things, it is uncomfortable and can be quite humiliating. But at least, in a female only toilet, it is a little better.

But a fully enclosed loo has a washbasin, so you could wash your clothes out/take your top off in complete privacy, right? As to your other objections, I can't really envisage the mechanics.

The only objection to fully enclosed toilets that I understand from your list is the safety aspect. To that I can only say there is no perfect solution, other places have them, and staff can usually get into them quickly in an emergency.

But all right then, leave toilets as they are and have third spaces.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 10:12

StuckUpPrincess · 03/05/2025 23:56

I find JK and the court ruling to be transphobic. While I don't think that transwomen should compete in women's sports, and I think that only trans people who have obtained GRCs should be allowed to use the women's loos and changing rooms, I also think it's awful to treat transpeople as if they don't exist. And that's what the UK Supreme Court ruling does. If someone who has fully transitioned can't use the women's loos and changing rooms, where are they meant to go? They'll get beaten up and harassed if they use the men's. But no one seems to care about that. They do exist and always have, and lots of transwomen will have used the loos with you and you're none the wiser.

I think what it comes down to is that JK and people who agree with her do not believe that there is any such thing as a genuine transwoman. That is, someone who feels that they are a woman inside, transitions to be female as far as is possible, just wants to continue with their lives, and has no interest whatsoever in doing anything harmful towards anyone.

JK and her followers seem to believe that every transwoman is some pervert in disguise and that they can't possibly be genuine.

I strongly disagree.

Have you now changed your mind that some males who have had surgery should be able to use women’s spaces, as you say here?

Waitwhat23 · 04/05/2025 10:12

Datun · 04/05/2025 10:01

You need to be on here a bit longer. We have a woman who has been campaigning about toilets being enclosed as a very bad idea.

They are dangerous. people generally go to the toilet when they're unwell. The reason why gaps exist in the first place is so you can see if someone has collapsed. This woman managed to save a life because she could see someone turning blue under the gap.

Enclosed toilets are unhygienic and dangerous and if you get bundled into one, you're fucked.

We should not be redesigning everything, to the detriment of everyone, to suit a handful of men who won't use a fucking unisex toilet, ffs.

When I worked in a public building, we had to climb over the top of the toilets ar least once a fortnight to help someone who had overdosed, or been taken unwell. Most times, the only reason we knew that someone was in trouble was because someone said to us 'there's someone lying on the floor'. It was hard enough to help them when we were able to see under and over the cubicle and could see where they were in relation to the door, let alone with floor to ceiling walls and doors.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 10:13

Also having a GRC does not mean a man has had genital surgery. It’s perfectly possible to have a GRC and be an intact male.

2021x · 04/05/2025 10:13

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:00

No, I don't agree with them. I'm fine sharing with transwomen. However, since many women do not feel that way, I think third spaces are the answer, since women's feelings matter too, not just transwomen's.

@StuckUpPrincess I think there is a little bit of a pile on here.

When you are speaking about a TG woman do you think its a person who has gender dysphoria, or would you also include men who have self-ID'd without medication or surgery?

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:14

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 10:12

Have you now changed your mind that some males who have had surgery should be able to use women’s spaces, as you say here?

For me, it would be fine and I'd have no objection. But since not every woman feels that way, I think third spaces are the way to go, as their feelings are as valid as mine.

If I were trans and I had a third space, I'd use it happily, as I wouldn't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 04/05/2025 10:15

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 10:08

This poster is making a lot of contradictory assertions, repeatedly. The internal logic doesn't hang at all, and many points are repeated over and over even after the poster appears to have gone back on them. With respect, I'm not going to engage anymore.

Yes every post evokes these 🤔🫤🤯. Trans ideology isn’t known for its logic, as evidenced. Repeatedly.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:15

2021x · 04/05/2025 10:13

@StuckUpPrincess I think there is a little bit of a pile on here.

When you are speaking about a TG woman do you think its a person who has gender dysphoria, or would you also include men who have self-ID'd without medication or surgery?

Oh, definitely not men who have self-ID'd without medication or surgery. Hell, no. They need to stay in the men's.

76s · 04/05/2025 10:17

Circumferences · 03/05/2025 20:46

There's a TRA currently bombarding another thread.

I feel like copy-and-pasting that on the thread and then just bowing out.

Let’s do it ever. Single. Time…. Close it down,

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 10:17

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:12

But a fully enclosed loo has a washbasin, so you could wash your clothes out/take your top off in complete privacy, right? As to your other objections, I can't really envisage the mechanics.

The only objection to fully enclosed toilets that I understand from your list is the safety aspect. To that I can only say there is no perfect solution, other places have them, and staff can usually get into them quickly in an emergency.

But all right then, leave toilets as they are and have third spaces.

And yet....

YOU cannot see the need, so you initially dismissed the need.

You cannot really envisage the mechanics? How do you fit a pram into a small fully enclosed cubicle? How do you collapse a wheelchair if you cannot leave your mother's side lest she topple over? Or is it that people who have these needs should just not leave their houses... all so a male people can be treated as if they are who they materially are not?

How many 'fully enclosed' loos do you want to have taken up for an extended period of time while someone cleans and dries themselves? How will this work exactly when there is a queue already?

But THANK YOU! Thank you that we can have our toilets to use as we have been using them for a very long time.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:20

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 04/05/2025 10:15

Yes every post evokes these 🤔🫤🤯. Trans ideology isn’t known for its logic, as evidenced. Repeatedly.

I think my position is logical, fair, and easy to understand.

I, personally, am OK with sharing with TW and so I find the judgement and JK to be transphobic - specifically, that even TW who have fully transitioned and hold GRCs aren't allowed in women's loos.

However, since many women feel uncomfortable sharing with TW, we should go for third spaces, since it's not only TW's feelings that matter.

What's inconsistent or illogical about that?

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