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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowlings latest tweet. Just wow!

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 03/05/2025 20:36

I've copied it in full.
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw&s=19

In light of recent open letters from academia and the arts criticising the UK's Supreme Court ruling on sex-based rights, it's possibly worth remembering that nobody sane believes, or has ever believed, that humans can change sex, or that binary sex isn't a material fact. These letters do nothing but remind us of what we know only too well: that pretending to believe these things has become an elitist badge of virtue.

I often wonder whether the signatories of such letters have to quieten their consciences before publicly boosting a movement intent on removing women's and girls' rights, which bullies gay people who admit openly they don't want opposite sex partners, and campaigns for the continued sterilisation of vulnerable and troubled kids. Do they feel any qualms at all while chanting the foundational lie of their religion: Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men?

I have no idea. All I know for sure is that it's a complete waste of time telling a gender activist that their favourite slogan is self-contradictory nonsense, because the lie is the whole point. They're not repeating it because it's true - they know full well it's not true - but because they believe they can make it true, sort of, if they force everyone else to agree. The foundational lie functions as both catechism and crucifix: the set form of words that obviates the tedious necessity of coming up with your own explanation of why you're one of the Godly, and an exorcist's weapon which will defeat demonic facts and reason, and promote the advance of righteous pseudoscience and sophistry.

Some argue that signatories of these sorts of letters are motivated by fear: fear for their careers, of course, but also fear of their co-religionists, who include angry, narcissistic men who threaten and sometimes enact violence on non-believers; back-stabbing colleagues ever ready to report wrongthink; the online shamers and doxxers and rape threateners, and, of course, the influential zealots in the upper echelons of liberal professions (though we can quibble whether they're actually liberal at all, given the draconian authoritarianism that seems to have engulfed so many). Gender ideology could give medieval Catholicism a run for its money when it comes to punishing heretics, so isn't it common sense to keep your head down and recite your Hail Mulvaneys?

But before we start feeling too sorry for any cowed and fearful TWAWites who're TERFy on the sly, let's not forget what a high proportion of them have willingly snatched up pitchforks and torches to join the inquisitional purges. Call me lacking in proper womanly sympathy, but I find the harm they've enabled and in some cases directly championed or funded - the hounding and shaming of vulnerable women, the forced loss of livelihoods, the unregulated medical experiment on minors - tends to dry up my tears at source.

History is littered with the debris of irrational and harmful belief systems that once seemed unassailable. As Orwell said, 'Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.' Gender ideology may have embedded itself deeply into our institutions, where it's been imposed, top-down, on the supposedly unenlightened, but it is not invulnerable.

Court losses are starting to stack up. The condescension, overreach, entitlement and aggression of gender activists is eroding public support daily. Women are fighting back and winning significant victories. Sporting bodies have miraculously awoken from their slumber and remembered that males tend to be larger, stronger and faster than females. Parts of the medical establishment are questioning cutting healthy breasts off teenaged girls is really the best way to fix their mental health problems.

One seemingly harmless little white lie - Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men - uttered in most cases without any real thought at all, and a few short years later, people who think of themselves as supremely virtuous are typing 'yes, rapists' pronouns are absolutely the hill I'll die on,' rubbing shoulders with those who call for women to be hanged and decapitated for wanting all-female rape crisis centres, and furiously denying clear and mounting evidence of the greatest medical scandal in a century.

I wonder if they ever ask themselves how they got here, and I wonder whether any of them will ever feel shame.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?s=19&t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw

OP posts:
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36
Judashascomeintosomemoney · 04/05/2025 09:50

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:42

Correct.

Sorry, which bit? That you are just referring to your temple?
Because it would definitely be true that hair coverings for women are very much about modesty in other Jewish communities.

borntobequiet · 04/05/2025 09:50

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:06

Look I know you just want to argue. I can’t be arsed with that - what’s the point?

The only way forward through this toxic mess is to find points of consensus and understanding, rather than just shouting at each other online.

The poster asked me if I seriously think “transgenderism” is not an “ideological concept”. I can’t answer that without understanding what she means exactly . I am curious. Does she mean to say that being trans is not real?

Edited

Saying that transgenderism is an ideological concept means exactly that. It’s a set of ideas and beliefs that don’t necessarily correspond to material reality. Trans people who believe they are of the opposite sex certainly exist, and are entitled to believe whatever they want, but their belief is false, because this cannot be materially true. Their beliefs should not allow them to insist, by word or action, that others share their belief or force them to use confusing and inaccurate language to promulgate those beliefs.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 04/05/2025 09:50

MellowCritic · 04/05/2025 09:38

Go online and see for yourself. Plenty there for you. I'm surprised you're here acting so sure of yourself. Where as she hasn't come out and said she supports killing of civilians (no one ever does) she does not condemn their actions (for someone so vocal ) and in fact supports their perspective. Go and educate yourself historically before you come at me. Go and find me an article where she supports women and children in gaza and condemns the Israeli government for their actions ... ill be here waiting.

Edited

So you have nothing, I am all astonishment! You embarrassed yourself and made a bold statement and clearly can’t back it up, it’s not up to me to prove a negative.

You just want her to be that person and it makes you absolutely livid that she isn’t, because she can’t be bought or silenced, or cowed. She puts her money where her mouth is and is endlessly philanthropic, she does it because she cares deeply for women and girls. She doesn’t do it for publicity or attention or to further her career, because she needs none of those things.

She tells the unvarnished truth about this insidious, regressive, misogynistic and homophobic ideology, and as the saying goes, the truth hurts.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:51

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:47

Yes, lots of women feel strongly against it, which is why third spaces should be the answer.

I agree with all of that.

I agree that clothing has nothing to do with sex, and that gender is restrictive, and that 'trans' people should be free to live as they please. Third spaces would be ideal, and probably useful in other instances, too.

If the multi million pound organisations Stonewall, Mermaids, Engender, Gendered Intelligence, et al, would focus on a campaign for third spaces, this could offer a great deal of benefit to trans people and others.

They could campaign to combat stereotypes, encourage tolerance of gender incongruence and non-conformity, and provide additional spaces. Wins all round. Everyone's happy.

I do hope they do that.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:52

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:46

Unfortunately, due to our gender boxes, men can't wear makeup or skirts and heels if they want to, which I think is a pity. There's really no reason why they can't, except for social conditioning. It's not like they're going to burst into flames if they put a skirt on. I agree that mode of dress isn't tied to biological sex.

I think you need to clarify this here. You are talking about your own 'gender boxes' here. Because I don't believe there is a general UK society 'gender box' that means men cannot wear makeup, skirts and heels.

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 09:52

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 09:43

Thats fine then, your personal beliefs aren’t an issue for me. I simply disagree.

How would you know a TW had fully transitioned? Are you relying on that person being honest and truthful?

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:54

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 09:43

Thats fine then, your personal beliefs aren’t an issue for me. I simply disagree.

Yes.

I hope that society solves this dreadful culture war with third spaces. It's obvious that they are very much needed.

I wonder if places will move away from the current toilet model which is one large room containing lots of cubicles, to lots of separate and totally enclosed loos that everyone uses, like you get in Waterstone's and Starbucks. Swimming pools and sports centres should have separate rooms for transpeople, and I wouldn't have thought hospitals and prisons would have any trouble designating spaced for trans people, if they wanted to.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:54

Just plonking down the question that still remains unanswered for threads and threads. It seems to be invisible.

In what way is a male person who has lost their penis and testes and is on exogenous hormones for disease different to the male person who has chosen to do this to fit their philosophical belief?

Why should one of them have access to female single sex spaces and not the other?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 09:55

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 09:52

How would you know a TW had fully transitioned? Are you relying on that person being honest and truthful?

It’s not my position. Ask Princess whose post I was disagreeing with. The part I am ok with is her wish for third spaces. She can persuade the TRAs of that.

Datun · 04/05/2025 09:55

HereForTheFreeLunch · 04/05/2025 09:46

10 years, 10 court cases, a SC ruling and here we are still with Datun patiently explaining why cyclical definitions don't work and what constitutes a stereotype. (Maybe the patience has run a bit thin... but oh my God! 🧱 😡 Head bang on brick wall)

And of course, JKR isn't saintly enough. It's never enough or it's all the wrong type of thing or something.

Edited

So true! Sometimes it does feel like we're explaining it to one person at a time.

But I've always imagined that there are plenty more people reading than those we are actually speaking to on the thread.

I bloody hope so!

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:56

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:52

I think you need to clarify this here. You are talking about your own 'gender boxes' here. Because I don't believe there is a general UK society 'gender box' that means men cannot wear makeup, skirts and heels.

Well, as you walk around, you see many, many more women wearing makeup, skirts, and heels than you do men, right?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 09:56

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:54

Yes.

I hope that society solves this dreadful culture war with third spaces. It's obvious that they are very much needed.

I wonder if places will move away from the current toilet model which is one large room containing lots of cubicles, to lots of separate and totally enclosed loos that everyone uses, like you get in Waterstone's and Starbucks. Swimming pools and sports centres should have separate rooms for transpeople, and I wouldn't have thought hospitals and prisons would have any trouble designating spaced for trans people, if they wanted to.

@KeepToiletsSafe can tell you why enclosed cubicles for all aren’t the answer.

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:57

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:51

I agree with all of that.

I agree that clothing has nothing to do with sex, and that gender is restrictive, and that 'trans' people should be free to live as they please. Third spaces would be ideal, and probably useful in other instances, too.

If the multi million pound organisations Stonewall, Mermaids, Engender, Gendered Intelligence, et al, would focus on a campaign for third spaces, this could offer a great deal of benefit to trans people and others.

They could campaign to combat stereotypes, encourage tolerance of gender incongruence and non-conformity, and provide additional spaces. Wins all round. Everyone's happy.

I do hope they do that.

And yet, @StuckUpPrincess declared last night that JKR and the SC judgement was transphobic?

And yet, it seems that the poster agrees with the very things that JKR and the SC judgement supports? I am confused.

NecessaryScene · 04/05/2025 09:57

Because I don't believe there is a general UK society 'gender box' that means men cannot wear makeup, skirts and heels.

No, because that is illegal under the Equality Act.

Let's try having Magdalen Berns explain it - a compare and contrast between someone who successfully fought to be able to wear what she wanted under equality legislation, and a genderist who thinks there should be a "men's uniform".

There was a previous comment: "But I'm talking about working within the society we actually have, not the one we wish we had."

No! You're talking about working as per a society we've already abolished and moved beyond. Regressing to a pre-EA or pre-sex discrimination act society.

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StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:58

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 09:56

@KeepToiletsSafe can tell you why enclosed cubicles for all aren’t the answer.

Edited

Why?

I guess there isn't a perfect solution. If you mean that enclosed types are not as safe because of emergencies, many places have just those types, like the aforementioned Starbucks and Waterstones.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:58

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:56

Well, as you walk around, you see many, many more women wearing makeup, skirts, and heels than you do men, right?

Again, though, a generalisation about a group doesn't mean that someone who doesn't fit the generalisation isn't part of that group. I don't wear makeup or skirts or heels. It has no impact whatsoever on me being a woman and a mother.

I explained this upthread in a post steelmanning your argument about 'living as a woman'.

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 04/05/2025 09:58

ThatCyanCat · 04/05/2025 09:47

And now it's the "she hasn't taken a public stance on every single issue so..." thing. This is exhausting.

The only thing I've seen her do is speak out against antisemitism. I assume you haven't got an issue with her doing that.

She’s been accused of being both a Zionist and an antisemite. Nothing like covering all the bases.

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:59

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 04/05/2025 09:58

She’s been accused of being both a Zionist and an antisemite. Nothing like covering all the bases.

Edited

Don't forget the all purpose 'evil' and 'insane'.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 10:00

Helleofabore · 04/05/2025 09:57

And yet, @StuckUpPrincess declared last night that JKR and the SC judgement was transphobic?

And yet, it seems that the poster agrees with the very things that JKR and the SC judgement supports? I am confused.

No, I don't agree with them. I'm fine sharing with transwomen. However, since many women do not feel that way, I think third spaces are the answer, since women's feelings matter too, not just transwomen's.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2025 10:01

@StuckUpPrincessI don’t believe that a man in makeup, a skirt and heels is anything other than a man in makeup, a skirt and heels.

Datun · 04/05/2025 10:01

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 09:54

Yes.

I hope that society solves this dreadful culture war with third spaces. It's obvious that they are very much needed.

I wonder if places will move away from the current toilet model which is one large room containing lots of cubicles, to lots of separate and totally enclosed loos that everyone uses, like you get in Waterstone's and Starbucks. Swimming pools and sports centres should have separate rooms for transpeople, and I wouldn't have thought hospitals and prisons would have any trouble designating spaced for trans people, if they wanted to.

You need to be on here a bit longer. We have a woman who has been campaigning about toilets being enclosed as a very bad idea.

They are dangerous. people generally go to the toilet when they're unwell. The reason why gaps exist in the first place is so you can see if someone has collapsed. This woman managed to save a life because she could see someone turning blue under the gap.

Enclosed toilets are unhygienic and dangerous and if you get bundled into one, you're fucked.

We should not be redesigning everything, to the detriment of everyone, to suit a handful of men who won't use a fucking unisex toilet, ffs.

CiaoMeow · 04/05/2025 10:02

JKR❤

TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne · 04/05/2025 10:02

................and I wouldn't have thought hospitals and prisons would have any trouble designating spaces for trans people, if they wanted to.

The sense of entitlement is breathtaking here.

Why on earth would such a tiny proportion of society cause such a lot of upheaval and expense?

Just use the loos determined by your sex. There are only two sexes. If you're a man, use the men's.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 04/05/2025 10:02

MellowCritic · 04/05/2025 09:38

Go online and see for yourself. Plenty there for you. I'm surprised you're here acting so sure of yourself. Where as she hasn't come out and said she supports killing of civilians (no one ever does) she does not condemn their actions (for someone so vocal ) and in fact supports their perspective. Go and educate yourself historically before you come at me. Go and find me an article where she supports women and children in gaza and condemns the Israeli government for their actions ... ill be here waiting.

Edited

Why on earth do you think JKR owes you her comment on Israel/Palestine?! That’s mad.

Datun · 04/05/2025 10:04

ArabellaScott · 04/05/2025 09:59

Don't forget the all purpose 'evil' and 'insane'.

She's also been told how awful she is for not setting up any women's charities!

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