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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowlings latest tweet. Just wow!

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 03/05/2025 20:36

I've copied it in full.
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw&s=19

In light of recent open letters from academia and the arts criticising the UK's Supreme Court ruling on sex-based rights, it's possibly worth remembering that nobody sane believes, or has ever believed, that humans can change sex, or that binary sex isn't a material fact. These letters do nothing but remind us of what we know only too well: that pretending to believe these things has become an elitist badge of virtue.

I often wonder whether the signatories of such letters have to quieten their consciences before publicly boosting a movement intent on removing women's and girls' rights, which bullies gay people who admit openly they don't want opposite sex partners, and campaigns for the continued sterilisation of vulnerable and troubled kids. Do they feel any qualms at all while chanting the foundational lie of their religion: Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men?

I have no idea. All I know for sure is that it's a complete waste of time telling a gender activist that their favourite slogan is self-contradictory nonsense, because the lie is the whole point. They're not repeating it because it's true - they know full well it's not true - but because they believe they can make it true, sort of, if they force everyone else to agree. The foundational lie functions as both catechism and crucifix: the set form of words that obviates the tedious necessity of coming up with your own explanation of why you're one of the Godly, and an exorcist's weapon which will defeat demonic facts and reason, and promote the advance of righteous pseudoscience and sophistry.

Some argue that signatories of these sorts of letters are motivated by fear: fear for their careers, of course, but also fear of their co-religionists, who include angry, narcissistic men who threaten and sometimes enact violence on non-believers; back-stabbing colleagues ever ready to report wrongthink; the online shamers and doxxers and rape threateners, and, of course, the influential zealots in the upper echelons of liberal professions (though we can quibble whether they're actually liberal at all, given the draconian authoritarianism that seems to have engulfed so many). Gender ideology could give medieval Catholicism a run for its money when it comes to punishing heretics, so isn't it common sense to keep your head down and recite your Hail Mulvaneys?

But before we start feeling too sorry for any cowed and fearful TWAWites who're TERFy on the sly, let's not forget what a high proportion of them have willingly snatched up pitchforks and torches to join the inquisitional purges. Call me lacking in proper womanly sympathy, but I find the harm they've enabled and in some cases directly championed or funded - the hounding and shaming of vulnerable women, the forced loss of livelihoods, the unregulated medical experiment on minors - tends to dry up my tears at source.

History is littered with the debris of irrational and harmful belief systems that once seemed unassailable. As Orwell said, 'Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.' Gender ideology may have embedded itself deeply into our institutions, where it's been imposed, top-down, on the supposedly unenlightened, but it is not invulnerable.

Court losses are starting to stack up. The condescension, overreach, entitlement and aggression of gender activists is eroding public support daily. Women are fighting back and winning significant victories. Sporting bodies have miraculously awoken from their slumber and remembered that males tend to be larger, stronger and faster than females. Parts of the medical establishment are questioning cutting healthy breasts off teenaged girls is really the best way to fix their mental health problems.

One seemingly harmless little white lie - Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men - uttered in most cases without any real thought at all, and a few short years later, people who think of themselves as supremely virtuous are typing 'yes, rapists' pronouns are absolutely the hill I'll die on,' rubbing shoulders with those who call for women to be hanged and decapitated for wanting all-female rape crisis centres, and furiously denying clear and mounting evidence of the greatest medical scandal in a century.

I wonder if they ever ask themselves how they got here, and I wonder whether any of them will ever feel shame.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?s=19&t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw

OP posts:
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36
Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:42

Chickensky · 04/05/2025 01:37

Sorry got to add on here that the whole premise of De Beauvoir is the fact that women are the 2nd sex due to reproduction. Wow! I mentioned women being the 2nd sex earlier. Mind boggles you went there!

Have you read the book? Or are you just assuming you know what it’s about?

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 04/05/2025 01:42

To be honest it’s not compatible with my dignity as a woman either. None of this is dignified for anyone. There is no dignity in fascism.

Second, even if it were the law, there would still be options. They tried to implement apartheid in South Africa, but it did not last.

Curses, I've found my bingo card but I can't find my dabber

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/05/2025 01:43

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:29

If you are really interested in the question “what is a woman?”-
Why don’t you start with Simone de Beauvoir, the Second Sex. It’s one of the foundational works of feminism. ( that’s what we are all supposed to be here right? Feminists? )
It’s 894 pages long. Because the answer to that question isn’t simple.

I'm not asking "what is a woman?". I'm asking what you think "a woman" is.

I'm not trying to gotcha or argue with your definition. I just want to understand where you are coming from.

SnoopyPajamas · 04/05/2025 01:43

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:34

I find men wearing womanface disturbing and problematic

Is that what a trans woman is to you?

even the Supreme Court agrees men are not women
No. they did not say this. If you want to talk about “lies”- these are the types of lies that people need to stop spreading. The SC explicitly stated they were not agreeing with your statement.

Cor! The Supreme Court prophesied Mumsnet user @Annoyedone would make a post about this and explicitly disagreed with her? Colour me impressed. Who knew they had such power?

The whole point of the ruling was that men don't count as women under the auspices of the Equality Act. Not even men who identify as trans and have bits of paper to prove their commitment to transness. I'm baffled as to what you think the ruling was, if that's not the case.

By the way . . . is Rachel Dolezal a white woman wearing blackface, to you? Why / why not?

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:45

queenofthesuburbs · 04/05/2025 01:40

@Lostcat I've read it (in French) and written essays on it .

She basically says that women are always viewed in relation to and secondary in importance to men.

I have a hunch she would have been on the side of JKR

"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman" - says SdB.

You think she’d be into the JKR simplisms “woman= adult, human, female”.

I highly doubt it.

SnoopyPajamas · 04/05/2025 01:49

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:38

By "transgenderism" I mean: the belief that a person can be transgender

so you mean you mean that you think “being transgender” is a belief. ? Trans people are just make believe? There’s no such thing as actually being trans, there’s only a belief that you are transgender?

Of course it's a belief. It's a thought in someone's head. "I feel like a woman and I believe this feeling makes me a woman".

The gender fairy doesn't fly down out of the sky and donk people on the head with a magic wand, declaring "I now assign you trans!"

It is a belief. What else would it be? What is "actually being trans"? And do you ever actually answer questions when people take the time to answer yours?

Chickensky · 04/05/2025 01:49

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:42

Have you read the book? Or are you just assuming you know what it’s about?

Edited

Nope. Read it and studied it. Next question.

woolens · 04/05/2025 01:50

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:45

"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman" - says SdB.

You think she’d be into the JKR simplisms “woman= adult, human, female”.

I highly doubt it.

Read the rest of the passage you're quoting from.

Chickensky · 04/05/2025 01:52

Have you read it? It isn't about biological birth versus "becoming a woman"! Honestly I'd be interested to know what you have taken from it.

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 01:52

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:45

"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman" - says SdB.

You think she’d be into the JKR simplisms “woman= adult, human, female”.

I highly doubt it.

Um…. Do you really think Simone de Beauvoir is a voice of reason? She was an advocate for removing the age of consent at which a child could agree to a sexual relationship? Are you saying you are in agreement with her ideals and beliefs? Wow! That’s a strong statement @Lostcat

woolens · 04/05/2025 01:53

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:39

This is not law, and even if it did become law, it would not be enforceable.

It's unlawful indirect sex discrimination against women for being denied female-only facilities.

SnoopyPajamas · 04/05/2025 01:54

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:29

If you are really interested in the question “what is a woman?”-
Why don’t you start with Simone de Beauvoir, the Second Sex. It’s one of the foundational works of feminism. ( that’s what we are all supposed to be here right? Feminists? )
It’s 894 pages long. Because the answer to that question isn’t simple.

Ah. I see why you don't answer questions now.

Simone de Beauvoir was being philosophical. She was musing about the treatment of women under patriarchy, and the toll it takes. She was not extolling the belief that womanhood is not based in biological reality.

Midwives up and down the country don't whip out their copy of The Second Sex and engage in feminist debate with the newborns they've just delivered, in order to decide which ones are female. They use their common sense and just look. As all human beings do.

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 01:56

@SnoopyPajamas so what else is a TW? If a TW is not one of the oppressor class of male appropriating the costume of the oppressed class female what is it? If a TW did not resort to sexist outdated stereotypes of what a woman is supposed to be, how are they a woman? If biology does not make someone a woman, how come special feelings and a spinny skirt do?

Chickensky · 04/05/2025 01:58

SnoopyPajamas · 04/05/2025 01:54

Ah. I see why you don't answer questions now.

Simone de Beauvoir was being philosophical. She was musing about the treatment of women under patriarchy, and the toll it takes. She was not extolling the belief that womanhood is not based in biological reality.

Midwives up and down the country don't whip out their copy of The Second Sex and engage in feminist debate with the newborns they've just delivered, in order to decide which ones are female. They use their common sense and just look. As all human beings do.

A patriarchy in this instance that is reductive to reproduction. Which I think is ironic given the debate.

SnoopyPajamas · 04/05/2025 01:58

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/05/2025 01:43

I'm not asking "what is a woman?". I'm asking what you think "a woman" is.

I'm not trying to gotcha or argue with your definition. I just want to understand where you are coming from.

Why are they like this? When you ask someone "what is a table?" they don't summon a room full of scholars and debate it 😂

"What is a woman?"

"Hold on, let me assemble the conclave"

SnoopyPajamas · 04/05/2025 02:00

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 01:56

@SnoopyPajamas so what else is a TW? If a TW is not one of the oppressor class of male appropriating the costume of the oppressed class female what is it? If a TW did not resort to sexist outdated stereotypes of what a woman is supposed to be, how are they a woman? If biology does not make someone a woman, how come special feelings and a spinny skirt do?

I think we'd all love to know.

(I'm agreeing with you, by the way)

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 02:01

I’m sorry. That should have been to the terminally lost @lostcat. Definitely need more coffee.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 02:06

queenofthesuburbs · 04/05/2025 00:35

I actually don't think the majority of us do think they're all peverts. On another thread, many of us agreed that we turned a blind eye to men who obviously were desperate to be women and we shared toilet facilities (in my case) gladly.

However the trans lobby then started to take the p**s (literally as well as metaphorically), when people could change gender at a whim and then bearded men started to insist they used women's loos because today they felt female and significantly thought it was discriminatory that they used a third space/unisex loo.

I would feel uncomfortable if I were alone in a communal facility with a man and my teen daughter very much so, not because we think we're going to be raped, but just because we are doing an intimate biological function and don't want men around.

The sport thing was non sensical, but it was rarely challenged.

So they went too far and, as with many things, it has backfired on the males who desperately wanted to be women and who had lived among us without murmur.

I completely agree with every word of this. A voice of reason!

And yes, the trans extremists went way too far, and now the SC has ruled against all transpeople.

I find JK's views too extreme the other way. Both sides are extreme. There's not much middle ground. To me, a middle ground allows for genuine and fully-transitioned transpeople to be recognised, protected, and integrated into their chosen sex, while not allowing TW to compete in women's sports and not allowing self-ID as a way of accessing female spaces.

But no, most people in this debate seem to be extremists.

MrsPeterHarris · 04/05/2025 02:08

Imnobody4 · 03/05/2025 20:45

'Gender ideology could give medieval Catholicism a run for its money when it comes to punishing heretics, so isn't it common sense to keep your head down and recite your Hail Mulvaneys?'
made me laugh. She's amazing.

This for me too! She’s amazing!

bluesinthenight · 04/05/2025 02:14

I don't think all trans women think they are women. I think many just want to live as woman, and quite frankly I don't blame them.

catlovingdoctor · 04/05/2025 02:15

Brilliant stuff, she's such a reliable voice of reason.

SinnerBoy · 04/05/2025 02:17

Lostcat · Today 01:32

For a start what you are saying isn’t even the law.

What? Are you seriously trying to claim that the Supreme Court didn't rule that the words "woman" and "women" don't mean exactly what they've always meant? Or that single sex services must be just that, if so advertised? That TW must be excluded from women's single sex services and facilities?

Second, even if it were the law, there would still be options. They tried to implement apartheid in South Africa, but it did not last.

Please! Enough of the ridiculously emotive propaganda! It's incredibly disrespectful to the people who suffered under Apartheid.

Are you really claiming that, because men pretending to be women have now had it confirmed that they need to stay out of female single sex spaces that they can:

Be excluded from tertiary education
National sports teams
Good jobs
Be arrested arbitrarily
Be assaulted and beaten by the Police, on a whim, even to death
Be forced into unsanitary ghettos

Really?

Panterusblackish · 04/05/2025 02:19

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:21

There genuinely isn't much of a debate to be had

if your response to people disagreeing with you is to stick your fingers in your ears and say “no debate”, then you are absolutely part of the problem.

They need to come to terms with this.

What you are proposing is not compatible with the dignity, privacy, life of people who are trans. So unfortunately it is not an option. “coming to terms with it” is not going to happen.

Edited

Nonsense.

There is no debate to be had because we all know what a woman is. Which is the entire point of JKRs post. We all know. We have always know. A modern day witch hunt tried to stop women speaking that truth.

No one donning womanface, pumping themselves full of hormones, growing their hair and having fake boobs inserted can transition into womanhood if they were not born into the female sex. Nope, not even if they have their penis chopped off. Though most don't.

Just because someone has a mental health issue or a fetish, it does not mean that they should be allowed to indulge that at the expense of women and it is deeply misogynistic to ignore the appropriation of womens identities and the theft of women's achievements by these men.

It shows how much society still hates women that this situation was ever allowed to spiral so far out if control. Stonewall particularly should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

JKR has been a brave shining beacon who spoke the truth. She forever has my respect and admiration.

And as I'm in the US at present I will say this, the Democrats need to divorce themselves from this ridiculous gender ideology otherwise they will continue to alienate voters.

Thank christ the UK has seen sense.

Espressosummer · 04/05/2025 02:22

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:29

If you are really interested in the question “what is a woman?”-
Why don’t you start with Simone de Beauvoir, the Second Sex. It’s one of the foundational works of feminism. ( that’s what we are all supposed to be here right? Feminists? )
It’s 894 pages long. Because the answer to that question isn’t simple.

So you can't actually answer the question as to who you think women are.

StuckUpPrincess · 04/05/2025 02:25

Vaxtable · 04/05/2025 00:08

Oh go away with you. JK is standing up for women. Which if the TRAs would have their way would soon become a minority.

Why should I give up hard won rights to share my safe place with someone who is not biologically woman. Why should women in prison have to share with a man? Why should those poor American swimmers have to share changing rooms with a man? Someone who was happy to walk around with his penis hanging out

Why do women who have suffered domestic abuse have to attend a centre and talk to a man?

if someone suffers body dysmorphia and thinks they are the opposite sex that’s up to them but they can’t be expected to share spaces solely for women ( or men if a trans man) so trans people have to have a third space

the ruling was also clear that the trans community continue to be protected. They just can’t share women’s safe spaces and tbh I am very sad you seem to think it’s acceptable that women gave to share with non women

Edited

I said that I don't agree with TW participating in women's sports. And Lia T. had not fully transitioned. I agree that the swimmers should not have had to share with her.

It's about a common-sense middle ground, and you're demonstrating an extreme position by insisting that fully-transitioned TW are the same as regular men. To me, there's a big difference between being asked to share with a regular man and being asked to share with a man who's had his male genitalia removed and has undergone full hormonal treatment and presents and lives as a female. I do not perceive any male threat from that person at all, and I'm very disappointed that JK is so prejudiced against someone like that.

I suspect their lives have been made very hard by being trans, and if they want to join us after fully transitioning, what's the harm? In this scenario, I'm assuming that the transperson is genuine. I know that we can't know everyone's motivations and inner self, but that's true of many situations in life, like when you take a taxi as a lone female with a male driver.

The hate against all trans people is quite shocking.

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