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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowlings latest tweet. Just wow!

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 03/05/2025 20:36

I've copied it in full.
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw&s=19

In light of recent open letters from academia and the arts criticising the UK's Supreme Court ruling on sex-based rights, it's possibly worth remembering that nobody sane believes, or has ever believed, that humans can change sex, or that binary sex isn't a material fact. These letters do nothing but remind us of what we know only too well: that pretending to believe these things has become an elitist badge of virtue.

I often wonder whether the signatories of such letters have to quieten their consciences before publicly boosting a movement intent on removing women's and girls' rights, which bullies gay people who admit openly they don't want opposite sex partners, and campaigns for the continued sterilisation of vulnerable and troubled kids. Do they feel any qualms at all while chanting the foundational lie of their religion: Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men?

I have no idea. All I know for sure is that it's a complete waste of time telling a gender activist that their favourite slogan is self-contradictory nonsense, because the lie is the whole point. They're not repeating it because it's true - they know full well it's not true - but because they believe they can make it true, sort of, if they force everyone else to agree. The foundational lie functions as both catechism and crucifix: the set form of words that obviates the tedious necessity of coming up with your own explanation of why you're one of the Godly, and an exorcist's weapon which will defeat demonic facts and reason, and promote the advance of righteous pseudoscience and sophistry.

Some argue that signatories of these sorts of letters are motivated by fear: fear for their careers, of course, but also fear of their co-religionists, who include angry, narcissistic men who threaten and sometimes enact violence on non-believers; back-stabbing colleagues ever ready to report wrongthink; the online shamers and doxxers and rape threateners, and, of course, the influential zealots in the upper echelons of liberal professions (though we can quibble whether they're actually liberal at all, given the draconian authoritarianism that seems to have engulfed so many). Gender ideology could give medieval Catholicism a run for its money when it comes to punishing heretics, so isn't it common sense to keep your head down and recite your Hail Mulvaneys?

But before we start feeling too sorry for any cowed and fearful TWAWites who're TERFy on the sly, let's not forget what a high proportion of them have willingly snatched up pitchforks and torches to join the inquisitional purges. Call me lacking in proper womanly sympathy, but I find the harm they've enabled and in some cases directly championed or funded - the hounding and shaming of vulnerable women, the forced loss of livelihoods, the unregulated medical experiment on minors - tends to dry up my tears at source.

History is littered with the debris of irrational and harmful belief systems that once seemed unassailable. As Orwell said, 'Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.' Gender ideology may have embedded itself deeply into our institutions, where it's been imposed, top-down, on the supposedly unenlightened, but it is not invulnerable.

Court losses are starting to stack up. The condescension, overreach, entitlement and aggression of gender activists is eroding public support daily. Women are fighting back and winning significant victories. Sporting bodies have miraculously awoken from their slumber and remembered that males tend to be larger, stronger and faster than females. Parts of the medical establishment are questioning cutting healthy breasts off teenaged girls is really the best way to fix their mental health problems.

One seemingly harmless little white lie - Trans Women are Women, Trans Men are Men - uttered in most cases without any real thought at all, and a few short years later, people who think of themselves as supremely virtuous are typing 'yes, rapists' pronouns are absolutely the hill I'll die on,' rubbing shoulders with those who call for women to be hanged and decapitated for wanting all-female rape crisis centres, and furiously denying clear and mounting evidence of the greatest medical scandal in a century.

I wonder if they ever ask themselves how they got here, and I wonder whether any of them will ever feel shame.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1918747065460420745?s=19&t=bPXQ2pY9VAwPPqFR26_vvw

OP posts:
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36
Gymnopedie · 04/05/2025 01:13

I find JK and the court ruling to be transphobic

And I find the repeated words, threats and actions of the trans rights activists and their disciples to be deeply, deeply female-phobic.

Females don't march with placards saying the only good trans is a dead trans. Females don't march with placards saying shit on the head of a trans, females don't...need I go on?

Rhootintootinboo · 04/05/2025 01:13

I am ashamed. I claim I’m a feminist. I claim I had a voice amplified from the shoulders of giants I had never met. I had thought our battle was won. I worked in big corporate and kept my head down and my voice low. I rode on the back of JKR and FWS without who this conversation wouldn’t be happening. How close we came to obliteration because we, who are legion and valid, in our droves nearly just shut up for peace’s sake.

bigfatmeerkat · 04/05/2025 01:14

I have tested this out in an unscientific experiment with drunk men in a pub. “Do you think a trans woman is a man?” 100% answer no. “Is a trans woman a woman?” Less confident answer but probably yes especially if they look like a woman. “Is a trans man a man?” No absolutely not
Not a representative sample but would interesting to see if TWAW actually means TWANM to most

RedToothBrush · 04/05/2025 01:15

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:06

Look I know you just want to argue. I can’t be arsed with that - what’s the point?

The only way forward through this toxic mess is to find points of consensus and understanding, rather than just shouting at each other online.

The poster asked me if I seriously think “transgenderism” is not an “ideological concept”. I can’t answer that without understanding what she means exactly . I am curious. Does she mean to say that being trans is not real?

Edited

Btw we've been advocating for third spaces as a means of navigating this, since year dot.

We were threatened and abused for this.

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:16

socialdilemmawhattodo · 04/05/2025 01:13

One day when you've realised the good that she has done for women (for clarity adult human females) do come back and apologise. But it would be helpful if you could articulate perhaps 2 or 3 pieces of what you believe she has directly said that you consider to be harmful or ideological. Then perhaps a dialogue can take place.

I disagree with almost every thing she has said in this shared post. I would barely know where to start.

She has contributed absolutely nothing of any “good” or positivity for me as a woman.

I consider her to be a very disturbing and problematic person

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:21

RedToothBrush · 04/05/2025 01:11

There is not point debating!

There genuinely isn't much of a debate to be had here.

Women have rights based on sex. These are to privacy, dignity, safety and fairness.

This means males can't participate or be present in certain scenarios. The end.

We don't need to 'make a compromise'. The whole point is rights are non negotiable.

Transpeople have to now work out amongst themselves what is the best way forward, within the limitations of this, that enables them to retain their own privacy and dignity and safety.

This has fuck all to do with women. That's the entire point.

They need to come to terms with this. .

There genuinely isn't much of a debate to be had

if your response to people disagreeing with you is to stick your fingers in your ears and say “no debate”, then you are absolutely part of the problem.

They need to come to terms with this.

What you are proposing is not compatible with the dignity, privacy, life of people who are trans. So unfortunately it is not an option. “coming to terms with it” is not going to happen.

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:23

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:21

There genuinely isn't much of a debate to be had

if your response to people disagreeing with you is to stick your fingers in your ears and say “no debate”, then you are absolutely part of the problem.

They need to come to terms with this.

What you are proposing is not compatible with the dignity, privacy, life of people who are trans. So unfortunately it is not an option. “coming to terms with it” is not going to happen.

Edited

To be honest it’s not compatible with my dignity as a woman either. None of this is dignified for anyone. There is no dignity in fascism.

woolens · 04/05/2025 01:23

RedToothBrush · 04/05/2025 01:13

Well even if they do, we live in a secular society and they don't get to decide anymore than a Christian fundamentalism or a Islamic terrorist.

Yes, agreed. Makes it even more of a problem that these true gender believers have embedded themselves within powerful institutions up and down the land. It would be much better if they were just lying, as JKR thinks.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/05/2025 01:24

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:16

I disagree with almost every thing she has said in this shared post. I would barely know where to start.

She has contributed absolutely nothing of any “good” or positivity for me as a woman.

I consider her to be a very disturbing and problematic person

Edited

What do you consider "a woman" such as yourself to be? What needs does "a woman" have that "a man" does not, and why?

What would be "good" or "positive" for "a woman" in the sense that you understand "a woman" to mean?

That looks goady I know but honestly it isn't - JKR IMO has done material good for the people I understand as "women" but I know my understanding of that word is not the same as yours, so to understand your post I first need to understand your terminology.

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 01:24

@lostcat. I find men wearing womanface disturbing and problematic. I find men dictating to women what a woman is offensive. I find men issuing death threats and rape threats to women who say no to them sickening. I find those who defend these things to be misogynistic pricks of the first order. Why do you believe men who say they are women over women who say men are not women? I mean, even the Supreme Court agrees men are not women.

woolens · 04/05/2025 01:28

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:21

There genuinely isn't much of a debate to be had

if your response to people disagreeing with you is to stick your fingers in your ears and say “no debate”, then you are absolutely part of the problem.

They need to come to terms with this.

What you are proposing is not compatible with the dignity, privacy, life of people who are trans. So unfortunately it is not an option. “coming to terms with it” is not going to happen.

Edited

They will have to come to terms with it because there is no other option. Spaces and services designated for the sole use of the opposite sex are off-limits. There is no compromise available.

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:29

FlirtsWithRhinos · 04/05/2025 01:24

What do you consider "a woman" such as yourself to be? What needs does "a woman" have that "a man" does not, and why?

What would be "good" or "positive" for "a woman" in the sense that you understand "a woman" to mean?

That looks goady I know but honestly it isn't - JKR IMO has done material good for the people I understand as "women" but I know my understanding of that word is not the same as yours, so to understand your post I first need to understand your terminology.

If you are really interested in the question “what is a woman?”-
Why don’t you start with Simone de Beauvoir, the Second Sex. It’s one of the foundational works of feminism. ( that’s what we are all supposed to be here right? Feminists? )
It’s 894 pages long. Because the answer to that question isn’t simple.

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:32

woolens · 04/05/2025 01:28

They will have to come to terms with it because there is no other option. Spaces and services designated for the sole use of the opposite sex are off-limits. There is no compromise available.

Of course there are options.

For a start what you are saying isn’t even the law.

Second, even if it were the law, there would still be options. They tried to implement apartheid in South Africa, but it did not last.

Seethlaw · 04/05/2025 01:32

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:29

If you are really interested in the question “what is a woman?”-
Why don’t you start with Simone de Beauvoir, the Second Sex. It’s one of the foundational works of feminism. ( that’s what we are all supposed to be here right? Feminists? )
It’s 894 pages long. Because the answer to that question isn’t simple.

the Second Sex

the Second SEX

the Second SEX

OMG 😂 !!!

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:34

Annoyedone · 04/05/2025 01:24

@lostcat. I find men wearing womanface disturbing and problematic. I find men dictating to women what a woman is offensive. I find men issuing death threats and rape threats to women who say no to them sickening. I find those who defend these things to be misogynistic pricks of the first order. Why do you believe men who say they are women over women who say men are not women? I mean, even the Supreme Court agrees men are not women.

I find men wearing womanface disturbing and problematic

Is that what a trans woman is to you?

even the Supreme Court agrees men are not women
No. they did not say this. If you want to talk about “lies”- these are the types of lies that people need to stop spreading. The SC explicitly stated they were not agreeing with your statement.

SnoopyPajamas · 04/05/2025 01:34

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 00:50

Do you truly believe transgenderism is not an ideological concept?

the word is not “transgenderism”. And when you say “ideological concept”- what does that mean to you?

I used "transgenderism" because what I actually call it - "gender ideology" - would have been confusing to you.

By "transgenderism" I mean: the belief that a person can be transgender. That they have an inner gendered 'essence' of some sort that does not 'match' the sexed reality of their body. The belief that this perceived incongruence can be reconciled through the use of cross sex hormones and cosmetic surgery, and / or by living in imitation of the opposite sex.

By "gender ideology" I mean the broader ideology that encompasses the above belief. This includes beliefs about sex being a spectrum, the subset of non-binary, and so forth.

I think we all know what a concept is, yes? And to define "ideology" in general, I'll go with any of the dictionary definitions. Here's one: "An ideology is a set of beliefs or values attributed to a person or group of persons, especially those held for reasons that are not purely about belief in certain knowledge".

I'd argue gender ideology is more akin to a religion, personally. But as you can see, it clearly exists as a belief system, not an objective and provable fact.

Now you're going to tell me what any of those words means to you, because you've deflected once and I am agog. So come on. "Woman." "Transwoman". "Ideology." "Transgenderism". "Gender ideology." I've set out my definitions. Let's hear yours.

Gymnopedie · 04/05/2025 01:36

What you are proposing is not compatible with the dignity, privacy, life of people who are trans. So unfortunately it is not an option. “coming to terms with it” is not going to happen.

And what the trans community proposes is not and never has been compatible with the dignity, privacy, life of people who are female. But females have been told for a long time that they have to not even 'come to terms with it', but to accept it or face threats of death, rape, murder of their children. And despite that females said it wasn't going to happen. So we're at a bit of a stalemate if you are determined not to come to terms with it.

As per my previous post - when has a female ever threatened to murder a trans?

Chickensky · 04/05/2025 01:37

Sorry got to add on here that the whole premise of De Beauvoir is the fact that women are the 2nd sex due to reproduction. Wow! I mentioned women being the 2nd sex earlier. Mind boggles you went there!

woolens · 04/05/2025 01:38

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:32

Of course there are options.

For a start what you are saying isn’t even the law.

Second, even if it were the law, there would still be options. They tried to implement apartheid in South Africa, but it did not last.

No. There is no option that permits organisations to set up spaces and services designated solely for those of us who are female and then let males use these.

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:38

SnoopyPajamas · 04/05/2025 01:34

I used "transgenderism" because what I actually call it - "gender ideology" - would have been confusing to you.

By "transgenderism" I mean: the belief that a person can be transgender. That they have an inner gendered 'essence' of some sort that does not 'match' the sexed reality of their body. The belief that this perceived incongruence can be reconciled through the use of cross sex hormones and cosmetic surgery, and / or by living in imitation of the opposite sex.

By "gender ideology" I mean the broader ideology that encompasses the above belief. This includes beliefs about sex being a spectrum, the subset of non-binary, and so forth.

I think we all know what a concept is, yes? And to define "ideology" in general, I'll go with any of the dictionary definitions. Here's one: "An ideology is a set of beliefs or values attributed to a person or group of persons, especially those held for reasons that are not purely about belief in certain knowledge".

I'd argue gender ideology is more akin to a religion, personally. But as you can see, it clearly exists as a belief system, not an objective and provable fact.

Now you're going to tell me what any of those words means to you, because you've deflected once and I am agog. So come on. "Woman." "Transwoman". "Ideology." "Transgenderism". "Gender ideology." I've set out my definitions. Let's hear yours.

By "transgenderism" I mean: the belief that a person can be transgender

so you mean you mean that you think “being transgender” is a belief. ? Trans people are just make believe? There’s no such thing as actually being trans, there’s only a belief that you are transgender?

StevieNic · 04/05/2025 01:39

Wonderfully put

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:39

woolens · 04/05/2025 01:38

No. There is no option that permits organisations to set up spaces and services designated solely for those of us who are female and then let males use these.

This is not law, and even if it did become law, it would not be enforceable.

Seethlaw · 04/05/2025 01:39

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:38

By "transgenderism" I mean: the belief that a person can be transgender

so you mean you mean that you think “being transgender” is a belief. ? Trans people are just make believe? There’s no such thing as actually being trans, there’s only a belief that you are transgender?

"There’s no such thing as actually being trans, there’s only a belief that you are transgender?"

As a trans person, can I ask how you make the difference?

queenofthesuburbs · 04/05/2025 01:40

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:29

If you are really interested in the question “what is a woman?”-
Why don’t you start with Simone de Beauvoir, the Second Sex. It’s one of the foundational works of feminism. ( that’s what we are all supposed to be here right? Feminists? )
It’s 894 pages long. Because the answer to that question isn’t simple.

@Lostcat I've read it (in French) and written essays on it .

She basically says that women are always viewed in relation to and secondary in importance to men.

I have a hunch she would have been on the side of JKR

Boiledbeetle · 04/05/2025 01:41

Lostcat · 04/05/2025 01:21

There genuinely isn't much of a debate to be had

if your response to people disagreeing with you is to stick your fingers in your ears and say “no debate”, then you are absolutely part of the problem.

They need to come to terms with this.

What you are proposing is not compatible with the dignity, privacy, life of people who are trans. So unfortunately it is not an option. “coming to terms with it” is not going to happen.

Edited

if your response to people disagreeing with you is to stick your fingers in your ears and say “no debate”, then you are absolutely part of the problem.

Oh hell no! The women on here weren't the side of this argument throwing "No debate" around like confetti for fucking years rather than actually debate the topic. That was the TRAs.

What you are proposing is not compatible with the dignity, privacy, life of people who are trans. So unfortunately it is not an option. “coming to terms with it” is not going to happen.

Seethe and cope springs to mind considering they don't have a choice. Seethe and cope.

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