Amendment to Data Bill to revert all gender markers and out all trans people

[bluegoldflow]

Hoping this passes, it shouldn't be possible to change your sex (a biological impossibility) on legal documents. This would prevent men using this loop hole to erase their past identities and stop male crimes being recorded as female crimes.

Right back at you. I don’t take kindly to having your mates tell me what rights I should have to privacy and dignity either. Women’s spaces are for women.

Kindness and compassion goes both ways, no? I want single sex spaces for women and girls. That's kind, compassionate and makes us safer. But you don't. Why is the safety and dignity of women and girls always such a blind spot?

This reminds me a bit of the demo outside the Portsmouth FiLiA conference.

Among other things the protesters drowned out the voices of rape survivors by shouting and chalked obscene pictures & phrases on the ground in a busy central area where lots of children were passing.

The organiser claimed to be very upset about this and refused to take any responsibility. It was all the fault of the nasty women for not being inclusive.

No - of course I’m aware of them! I’d already addressed that in a previous post, calling them abhorrent. I think my posts have been very clear about my personal connection. Stop judging me. I don’t support or claim to understand each and every trans person but was aiming to give a rounded view. I’m upset because I was VERY observant! My family member is the most kind, gentle person you could wish to know. Do you think I want a cause that affects them to be taken over by violent and abusive people? Of course not.

Man comes to Feminist space.
Man lectures, threatens, demands, yells, commands.
Women say NO.
Man threatens, threatens, threatens, screenshots, threatens, leaves.

My mates - that’s a lot of mates! Think I knew four people there.

It wasnt even addressing the issues of recording sex accurately in the bill.

The prompt was obviously something along the lines of 'why TW pose no threat to women'. And nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

And given posters then praised the post, it shows how easily any discussions around the sex becomes distracted. Nothing can be discussed or thought about if it upsets trans people and their supporters.

This has to stop.

Well why isn't your ire directed at those violent and abusive people then, rather than women standing up for their rights?

When are you telling them that they need to be more kind and compassionate?

Done it!
Thank you, wasn't aware of it beforehand.

So have you gone on to trans groups and told them to be kind and compassionate @IleftmybaginNewportPagnell ? If not, why not? Is it only women’s duty to be kind and compassionate? Why do you believe women and girls are not deserving of single sex spaces?

do you not agree that transmen having their rights to maternity and abortion services enshrined in law, and the confirmation that transpeople are protected under the equality act by the PC of gender reassignment is a good thing? The only people who should’ve upset at the ruling are those who believe that women and girls do not deserve sex based rights and that women is defined by a feeling in a man’s head. Are you saying those are the people you support?

We can't make laws based on how kind and gentle your family member is. We can't tell which men presenting as women are kind and sweet and which are violent and aggressive so how do make rules that let the nice ones in and keep the bad ones out? If you let the nice, vegan fox who so wants to be a hen he has had his teeth removed and replaced with a beak into the henhouse how do you then turn all the rest of the foxes away?

Having now been to two events where a group of very aggressive male people with transgender identities screamed, abused and drowned out with instruments women who were merely talking amongst themselves, I think you have a very biased view of those male people who lead those protests. And they had similar signs. And the police did nothing but stand between those intimidating and violent male protestors because apparently that is considered peaceful protest.

Forget all the very scared women, everyone else seems to. Those male people were enabled by the police and by all those who don’t address these groups of male protestors.

I think I know what ‘vitriol’ looks like. And if you are here calling posts on a heavily moderated forum ‘vitriol’, I would suggest you need to start accepting the bias that shapes your own point of view.

I am just a mum too. And I went to the two events to support people I love too. So what? Does that make my experience more or less relevant than yours?

“I wanted to view the wider community.”

It seems like you got a very selective view of that community. And then is the question about how did you miss the media reports afterwards about the group people posted media reports of? Or did you think there was two protests? Or just that women should ignore the violent intimidatory group? If that was the case, I would like to see the well explained reason why we should ignore the group of violent and intimidatory male people with transgender identities who are the very ones telling us they are using our single sex spaces whether we like it or not.

Should've gone to Spec-savers - you seem to have missed most of what happened on the day.

It's ironic that women expressing concern that SOME (not all!) trans people & TRAs are women hating violent men &/or men with sexual fetishes was met with...threats of violence against women and men acting out their urine fetishes in public.

I would like to know this too.

Every person I see that comes onto this board to berate, censure and vilify women who are saying ‘no! The law is now clarified it is time to prioritise female people’s needs for single sex provision again’, seems to not ever be able to acknowledge the harm that has been done. And the group who are doing it, but they target us instead.

Bumping this as it must be done TODAY and is a chance for us all to take action.

There was the justification, it was just due to the push for everyone to pretend to believe those people were actually the opposite sex.

Yes, its terribly emotive and sounds very noble.

I'd point out that it dismisses women and all their concerns AND THE THINGS THEY HAVE FACTUALLY, EVIDENTIALLY SUFFERED in about a line.

We've gone from an attitude of 'we've taken your rights, you have no sex based rights, you can't stop us, HAH, sucks to be you!' to one of 'if we tell you how really sad and distressed we are, and how you just don't matter and nothing happened that you get to mind about, will you give us back your spaces and rights?'

It's not in the gift of women here to change the SC judgment even if they wanted to. And why should they?

I know many lovely, safe men; relatives and friends and colleagues. I don't want to undress with any of them. Privacy and dignity from men is something only women who want it can understand, but all the women who do have their sex in common. Likewise safety.The women who don't, very sadly, are only ever one day away from an experience with a man that will change their perspective for a lifetime, and statistically it will happen to so many of them sooner or later.

Men do not matter more than women however they identify. Men do not get to tell women what they are and are not allowed to mind about. And the utter derision and dismissal of anything women feel or say to claim a greater right to the space, to claim that women are cruel and stupid to refuse handing over their bodies and boundaries?

It's very male, and its EXACTLY why women need protections rock solid in law that man cannot break. Because they have no respect for women, they will never see women as having any justifiable needs or feelings, they will never accept a woman saying no to anything about their biology that is wanted, and they see women, at heart, as a resource they have an entitlement to. There will always be deeply sexist people cheering them on, as with this poster, and seeing them as 'brave' in their erasing of any bits of women's reality that they find inconvenient. Women cannot have equality or humanity without tough legal boundaries that men cannot cross, and I'm afraid this emotive appeal proves precisely why.

You will be fine in third spaces. You will be fine with accurate data. You live in a society that involves other people having needs and rights that are equally important to yours.

"The majority of men claiming to be transwomen will die with prostrate cancer. Is it really worth the momentary kick when the invite came for the NHS for cervical screening. What a waste of resources. My trans sibling almost framed it, a standard admin process validating his thinking."

I'm trans but I really don't get this. We already play with our health far enough by transitioning hormonally and/or surgically, so why add lack of proper screening to the list?? It's literally suicidal!

To consistently refer to us as men is not only deeply disrespectful—it is discriminatory

It's actually neither of those things; and that's backed up by case law, not by what tranw order and demand.

You are a man, it's entirely accurate and correct to describe you thus. The Supreme Court has ruled that women only facilities mean just that, it's entirely justified legal discrimination to exclude you.

It cannot be disrespectful to describe you honestly and accurately.

Certainly, if we were colleagues and every time I encountered you, I said,

"Eurgh! It's Kevin who calls himself Keighleigh, he's a man in a dress."

That would be bullying, harassment and certainly disrespectful. On the other hand, if I said,

"Oi! You can't go in there, that's the ladies... No Keighleigh, you're not a woman, you're a man and that's why."

It would not be discriminatory.

It’s a figure of speech. And yes, there are lots of misogynists in society, so it’s hardly surprising that many joined this “protest”.

The word “woman” is not a threat. It is not a battleground. It is a shared identity that reflects a lived experience—and trans women, like all women, navigate life through a lens shaped by society, by gender, and often by adversity.

There is no shared identity. Women who identify as men or as non-binary also need sex based rights because they are female.

Sex is either relevant or it isn't, and no public body should be collecting data unnecessarily. Sex discrimination is usually illegal, so there is noreason for it to be noted or recorded unless there is a clear need.

If you think the recording of sex is unlawful discrimination against people who have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, you should certainly make that argument, but privacy has never been an absolute right.

Good point. Bump.

Thank you - have emailed my MP
I won't hold my breath, though!

This.

And I'd implore you to consider why you have not been able to turn some of that kindness and compassion to women such as Sandie Peggie, or the victims of Karen White, or Katie Dolotowski. MANY women could have equally moving messages about what has happened to them as men destroyed their spaces and language and rights, but they would have risked being beaten up if they dared. Have you seen how they are treated at LWS events?

Women did not take this through courts just for a giggle one day to unfairly annoy men or to maliciously and unnecessarily upset trans people. They've shed a hell of a lot of tears too. Get real for goodness sake.