Banned from breastfeeding group for objecting to males breastfeeding

[snickerdoodle1990]

Hi everyone,

I gave birth a few months ago and had some breastfeeding difficulties, so joined a local breastfeeding support group in my city. It’s basically a place to go for support with feeding, plus meet other mums/have a cuppa and biscuit etc. They also have a FB group. It’s become a nice, friendly place to go once every couple of weeks.

Recently, a trans-woman (male) has joined the group asking for support because their wife has not long had a baby and the trans-woman is wishing to breastfeed too, apparently through use of hormones and domperidone (?) to stimulate supply (I did not realise this was possible at all)

I really really object to this person being present in a group of women who are seeking breastfeeding support, trying to come together in their breastfeeding experience and also revealing themselves intimately

I told the group leader my concerns and she basically told me to shove it - said that the group is a safe space for everyone and they support all who wish to breastfeed and that I shouldn’t come back because I am a bigot

I am horrified as are the other women, where do we all stand and what would you do?

If you read my posts
The laughing imoji was added for good natured reasons by MN to be used when people find something actually funny.
Not to be used for sarcasm

There were complaints that people were using it for disingenuous reasons, like you. So MNet are looking into it’s use.
Ive already said this
Its not rocket science…….

Please Stop making attacks. It doesn’t do your course any good if you have to revert to being rude.

Surely if you drink a lot of alcohol, it gets passed through the breastmilk to the baby, though?

In fairness, the advice may well have changed since I was breastfeeding, but I thought flavours and alcohol etc came through. And I thought that’s why you have to avoid certain medications when breastfeeding.

Not forgetting the fact that a TW is also quite likely to be on assorted other drugs to add or suppress hormones. And messing with a baby's hormone levels is unlikely to be a good thing.

Thanks. My point really was that the assumption of definite harm is not established - but your point emphasises even more strongly why this is a terrible idea.

It's reasonable to be suspicious about a man who forces his way into a women's breastfeeding group though isn't it. I think that places him in a high risk category for being an abusive pervert. I would say the same thing whether he was trans identified or not (eg a pushy partner).

His attempts to breastfeed can only serve to interrupt the breastfeeding relationship between lactating mother and child, harming them both. He cannot produce nutritional volumes of breastmilk. It's more disgusting if he wants to breastfeed for fetishistic reasons, but it's still selfish and harmful even if he wants to do it to feel "affirmed". There is no good reason for him to be there so it begs the question, why does he want to be there? To affirm his feelings at actual breastfeeding women's expense? Or to get a sexual thrill out of making women uncomfortable whilst he gets to ogle their breasts and fetishise breastfeeding.

Perhaps you think my saying that is transphobic, but to deny the obvious red flags in this scenario, simply out of a fear/concern of being transphobic is misogynistic. It's prioritising the trans identified man over every woman and baby in that group. Taking his word for it that he isn't predatory, when his own, entirely voluntary behaviour suggests clearly that he is. This is the exact same kind of grooming and willful blindness that we see abusers generate in other contexts. Particularly, it reminds me of the way that paedophilic abusers groom the community around their target child(ren).

OP I would go back to the group to gather the contact details of the other mothers so that you can arrange to meet somewhere else. And complain formally to the organisers of the group.

FFS if they identify as a female they can if they wish and a lot actually do.

It doesn’t matter whether you or I agree with it and think it’s right, this is what is actually happening

He is a male and its a fetish.

It's child abuse.

My understanding having done quite a lot of reading of studies about alcohol consumption specifically (I breastfed dd for 3 1/2 years and like drinking!) is that there is no good evidence it does get through and quite a lot of evidence that drinking is not harmful to the baby in terms of transmission via milk (it exists in milk at about the same level as in blood, your blood does not turn to alcohol even if you die of drinking. A woman having consumed a bottle or more of wine would have milk about as alcoholic as orange juice). The advice not to breastfeed when drinking is more so you don’t get drunk and harm the baby. Like everything to do with women’s bodies this is massively understudied and what we do know (that you can drink and feed and it’s probably fine for baby) does not fit the social messaging so is not passed on to women. I haven’t done as much reading about other drugs but again I think that there is scant research to draw robust conclusions. I have seen some studies about transwomen lactating that show they do produce fats and proteins and so on so milk is not necessarily totally void of nutrition (though not comparable to mothers milk) - but again these were tiny studies on one or two people and not robust science we can draw conclusions from.

I think that places him in a high risk category for being an abusive pervert

No it does not, a trans woman attended a breast feeding group to get breast feeding advice, that does not automatically make them an abusive pervert

Some people practice something called “adult nursing relationship” which is basically breastfeeding as a kink.

I think it’s very unlikely there is even a baby in the first place.

No they are a man. A biological male. As now confirmed in law.

Such narrow minded nonsense

As you can’t use the correct ‘there’ I won’t listen to anything you have to say

Unless the transwomen is also very thick, they must realise that the only advice they can be given is ‘speak to a doctor’/‘you could harm the baby it’s probably not a great idea to breastfeed’. This makes me think their motivations are then not to get advice, but to somehow affirm their own gender presentation by intruding on a private meeting where vulnerable women gather. This is abusive.

He shouldn’t be breastfeeding. Building up the breastfeeding bond between mother and baby is important in establishing milk supply at the start.
If he’s taking drugs to enable bf they’ll be bad for the baby.
This is all about him, not his baby or partner.
And he’s making most of the other women present very uncomfortable. So not fair at all.
Whether he’s a pervert or not I don’t know, but I do know he shouldn’t be there.

I would leave.

Gaslighting.

A biological male attempting to breastfeed cares only for himself and nothing for the safety of the infant. It's abuse and anyone defending it is minimising child abuse.

The only nonsense is yours.

Which means as per the Supreme Court ruling they are biologically a male

It wasn’t a private meeting though is was a breast feeding support group and they obviously didn’t discriminate as they allowed this person to participate

OP confirmed the wife and baby also attend.

That's certainly a valid way of looking at it. Another is that this person has been specifically told that they're welcome, and that people who disagree are free to seek support elsewhere.

For the record the risks of drugs in breastmilk are generally very overstated and I would be wary of condemning domperidone, in particular, if that is what is used by "trans women" to induce lactation, because domperidone is also used safely by many actual women to help them improve their breastmilk supply. FYI it is also completely safe to drink as much alcohol as you like whilst breastfeeding, so long as you have someone responsible to care for your infant if you are drunk and follow safe sleeping guidance.

I think what trans women produce is likely to be more or less breastmilk and very similar to what women produce in its basic composition and I can't think of an obvious plausible mechanism for it to be particularly harmful or dangerous in its composition per se. However, a trans woman will never produce breastmilk in quantities to meet the nutritional needs of an infant. As to whether the milk would have the same subtle, poorly understood and under-researched beneficial properties of maternal breastmilk is a complete unknown. What is known is that a 3rd party getting involved for no good reason is likely to disrupt the maternal-infant breastfeeding dyad and therefore potentially bring a premature end to breastfeeding or cause supply issues. So it's likely to harm infant and mother but not because it's some kind of poison. And personally, I am extremely dubious about trans identified males wanting to get a baby to suck on their breasts. I can sympathise with feeling uncomfortable in your sex but not with prioritising that feeling above your own child and their mother. Why would a man therefore be so driven to do this? He's either obsessed with being affirmed, or he's sexually motivated. We have to be able to talk openly about sexually motivated behaviour in men because the consequences of "not going there" have played out time and time again. See every scandal where men have sexually abused women/children/other men and those around them have just pretended it isn't happening.

They discriminated against women members who were made to feel uncomfortable by having a male there in what should be a safe space for new and potentially vulnerable mothers.

I don’t think you fully understand the meaning of gaslighting?!

And yes I think your comments are extremely presumptive, narrow minded and ignorant

Sure and my opinion is that them doing so is enabling abuse of women in what is supposed to be a safe space for them.

Cool

I think yours are misogynistic and delusional.