Banned from breastfeeding group for objecting to males breastfeeding

[snickerdoodle1990]

Hi everyone,

I gave birth a few months ago and had some breastfeeding difficulties, so joined a local breastfeeding support group in my city. It’s basically a place to go for support with feeding, plus meet other mums/have a cuppa and biscuit etc. They also have a FB group. It’s become a nice, friendly place to go once every couple of weeks.

Recently, a trans-woman (male) has joined the group asking for support because their wife has not long had a baby and the trans-woman is wishing to breastfeed too, apparently through use of hormones and domperidone (?) to stimulate supply (I did not realise this was possible at all)

I really really object to this person being present in a group of women who are seeking breastfeeding support, trying to come together in their breastfeeding experience and also revealing themselves intimately

I told the group leader my concerns and she basically told me to shove it - said that the group is a safe space for everyone and they support all who wish to breastfeed and that I shouldn’t come back because I am a bigot

I am horrified as are the other women, where do we all stand and what would you do?

No it doesn’t

Sorry, what?

Are you telling me that your version of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 says something different?

That sounds very strange, especially since the Supreme Court also discussed this provision in their judgment (at para 105).

It’s really odd that you’re getting a different version of the GRA from the rest of us - are you sure you refreshed the page??

I think your interpretation is incorrect

Ridiculous!
Tbh to me having men in a breastfeeding group sounds a bit like having women in a "let's see who can pee the furthest" competition!

What a shitty response from the leader?!
If I were you and others I'd just branch off and set up a new group, for bio women only.
She'll soon just be there on her own with this one bloke. The only way to do anything is just to vote with your feet. I'm sure some of the others must feel the same way you do?

Agree @LonginesPrime

Here’s a loud more legal definitions

If he was a she then this discussion would not be happening in the first place. He himself has apparently recognised this with his discussion of drug induced lactation.

You have admitted they’re not a woman given your recognition of single sex spaces. Then you’ve rounded it off with a nice patronising backhander to a new mother in a vulnerable situation.

The mental gymnastics needed here are quite something, all for what? Being kind to a man who’s inserting himself into a space where women are physically vulnerable and often in a state of undress. Er, bravo…?

Exactly maybe OP and the other mums will get to relax together too.
Mum friends can be such a support

👏👏

I can call myself King Charles IV but it doesn’t make it true. If words mean something, if there is intelligibility behind what we say, then no, this bloke at the breast feeding support group is NOT a mother. A mother gestates and bears a child. In addition, in the ordinary course of events she is equipped to feed the child with her mammaries (that is, she is a mammal!). A father inseminates the mother. That’s how sexual dimorphism works.

@Blueskies25
It’s rude to send laughing imojis at posts if all you mean is to belittle others posts.
Mumsnet are checking up on the inappropriate use of these

but now we know

A mother gestates and bears a child

So are you saying an adoptive woman cannot call herself a mother or a step mother cannot call herself a mother, there are different versions of mothers aside from the one you mentioned

Stop being ridiculous?!?!

No, we are saying that a male who used his penis to inseminate semen into a woman who thus became pregnant is a father, not a mother. Because he is male.

It wasn’t my interpretation, it was the verbatim text from the statute.

If I find a comment ridiculous I add a laughing emoji, what is your issue with that

In the ordinary course of events, yes, an adoptive mother is precisely that, adoptive. A step mother is that, a step mother.

Stop playing silly buggers with words. Where an adoptive mother or step mother has stepped into the breach for a child in need, it is not exactly the same as a mother in the sense of one who gestates and bears young.

I am not saying they are any less heroic in their sacrifice- but no it isn’t the same. Our ordinary use of the term mother in the context of adoptive or step is as the parent who rears the child fulfilling the female role. This is highly gendered and cultured, and varies in how it looks across history and geography, but to be clear:

no, an adoptive mother or a step mother is not a mother in the precise same sense in which we ordinarily use the term mother!

Why else would these forums be full of step mothers or adoptive mothers discussing difficulties peculiar to their situation if it was the same? There is a difference, they are mothers, but no not in the same sense.

To compare this to a male who has inseminated a woman and tried to co-opt the role of mother is ludicrous and defies any kind of ordinary or even technical definition of “mother” that makes sense.

Don’t be ridiculous an adoptive woman has every right to call herself a mother

Adoptive mothers ( at least in the UK ) and step mothers ( in most cultures ) don’t breast feed their children. Because they are not the biological mother .

You can be a legal and social mother ( like an adoptive mother ) but not a biological mother.

You can be a biological mother ( like a birth mother or a surrogate mother ) but not be a legal mother.

You can be a social mother ( like some step mothers ) without being either the legal mother or the biological mother.

You are confusing the biological , social and legal aspects of being a mother.

I’ve not said otherwise.

But they can call themselves mothers?!?!

Jesus, this is so tedious

So they’re aware of what? Are we honestly diverting services away from babies and children genuinely in need because you find someone being trans disgusting? Mumsnet lets itself down by letting these comments stand. If you’d said this about any other minority group you’d be facing a ban.

A mother gestates and bears a child.

On the contrary, yes you did say just that

This man isn’t a mother though, so why are you derailing the thread. He is the father. Not an adoptive or step father. The biological father. Not the mother. He will never be the mother. He is the legal father.

Unless he’s Shroedingers cat. In which case he can simultaneously be both the mother and the father.

It has never ever been proven that this is good for the baby. The baby first and also the mother should be everyone’s top priority here. That’s not what’s happening though, which is shame on them.

If this is real, it is a revolting abuse of women by someone who clearly gets a kick out of disregarding the boundaries and needs of vulnerable people, including their own wife and child. I seriously hope OP is on a wind up. If not, I would advise a strong complaint outlining just how uncomfortable it makes you feel and just how abusive any trans woman would need to be to do this. Apart from anything else there is literally no ‘support’ lactating females can offer male people who want to simulate breastfeeding - that desire needs to be filled by medical professionals. It is nothing to do with the process that postpartum women are going through.

If they identify as female they can refer to themselves as a mother, they don’t need to have given birth to the child, not all mothers have given birth to their children

This is the reality of the world we live in