Banned from breastfeeding group for objecting to males breastfeeding

[snickerdoodle1990]

Hi everyone,

I gave birth a few months ago and had some breastfeeding difficulties, so joined a local breastfeeding support group in my city. It’s basically a place to go for support with feeding, plus meet other mums/have a cuppa and biscuit etc. They also have a FB group. It’s become a nice, friendly place to go once every couple of weeks.

Recently, a trans-woman (male) has joined the group asking for support because their wife has not long had a baby and the trans-woman is wishing to breastfeed too, apparently through use of hormones and domperidone (?) to stimulate supply (I did not realise this was possible at all)

I really really object to this person being present in a group of women who are seeking breastfeeding support, trying to come together in their breastfeeding experience and also revealing themselves intimately

I told the group leader my concerns and she basically told me to shove it - said that the group is a safe space for everyone and they support all who wish to breastfeed and that I shouldn’t come back because I am a bigot

I am horrified as are the other women, where do we all stand and what would you do?

Nobody is 'falling over themselves' to let trans people do anything.

You can object to issues without getting drawn into the surrounding hysteria.

🤢

Well done OP for standing your ground.

Wtf is going on. Utter madness.

This would seem to be a good way forward!
I'm so sorry OP & I agree with you 100%.

I’ve seen a few posts on here saying that men can indeed induce lactation. Maybe so, I really don’t know the ins and outs. But does that make it right? Probably brings a whole new debate to the table - but just because we CAN do things, should we? Should we heck!

Gosh @Kay2000 it’s almost like you didn’t actually read my post and just jumped to some conclusions. I’ve been a breastfeeding counsellor attached to a reputable support organisation for over 20 years. But thank you so much for enlightening me about supply and demand, nipple confusion, the way breastmilk changes etc. There has been analysis done on the secretions from male breast tissue. It’s not identical to actual breastmilk from a woman, (and I didn’t say it was) but it has similar composition.

As you were.

I am not a TERF, I don't have a problem with terms like chestfeeding and I wouldn't have a problem with a transwoman who's just had a baby being at a new mum group with her wife.

But this just seems... wrong, because if the only way you can lactate at all is to take significant amounts of various drugs then surely that's potentially not good for the baby who has to come first here?! If there's a parent who can easily and naturally lactate surely you'd default to them, regardless of who is male or female or mother or father or anything.

It worries me that there's not enough evidence of safety or quality of the lactate produced by transwomen taking these drugs too.

If they can then there is really nothing we can do to stop it, just because we don’t like or agree with it

Get together with some of the other mums and start your own group

Men don’t belong in breastfeeding support groups. No. The leaders of your group were completely wrong in how they handled the whole situation.

That's a shame for you and all the women in the group who are probably uncomfortable with his presence but not confident enough to raise the issue.

The thought of the poor baby forced to try to feed from that individual is... just revolting, honestly.

Gosh that baby should not be drinking whatever is coming out that man’s nipple

The person trying to breastfeed their child that OP objects to is properly referred to as she.

And yes, it has been shown that with the appropriate intervention trans women can lactate.

The mother you objecting to has every right to be their - unless the relevant service makes this a single sex space and feels it can evidence a proportionate reason for making it such.

OP please focus on your own child at this critical time and stop worrying about how other mothers parent theirs.

when the secretions are analysed it is similar to female breastmilk.

The testing has only been of macronutrients (protein, fat, carbohydrate) and found it was similar. Not identical. Levels were the same or higher. Which was reported as 'just as good', but it might not be. For example additional protein might help growth, or might overload the baby's kidneys.

No testing was done of micronutrients (vitamins, minerals) or immune components. Or of variation through a feed to according to the baby's age - in women there are huge changes with both these factors.

And that testing was not on the milk of men taking drugs to deliberately induce milk production, it was a man with a medical condition and drug side effects from treatment. So no testing of drug residues in the milk.

There's another paper 'studying' a man deliberately inducing milk production specifically to feed a baby. But the paper's trash - milk wasn't tested; the paper claims exclusive 'chestfeeding' for several weeks, but the claimed quantity produced was far too small to do that; and the researcher never actually met or assessed the baby and didn't observe feeding (so it's possible it was a fabrication).

But that's not really relevant to the inclusion of this particular man in your group. The point is that this is a situation where it's totally reasonable for women to have a single-sex group. The supreme court ruling clarified it's permissible to exclude all men - regardless of identity or certificates. And including a man is a serious detriment to the women who then self-exclude.

If the person is a trans woman, they are male. I will continue to refer to males using male pronouns. Especially when the person in question isn't here to be offended or kick up a fuss. He may like to think of himself as a woman, but he's not. 💁

Women shouldn't be expected to discuss private matters like difficulties with breastfeeding with men sitting there listening.

A lactation of sort can be hormonally induced, but nothing like the quality or quantity of milk from the mum.

https://millihill.substack.com/p/bbc-admits-their-report-on-trans

What happens if you keep turning up to the group . Is she going to physically remove you? You’ve every right to be there. Tell her she’s not welcome. Go along and let her make a scene. Get everyone’s contact details & start your own group.

Same!! I didn’t produce any milk due to lack of the hormone that tells your body to produce it! Was just told you’ll have to formula feed

It’s a couple of women on their own… There’s a few pop up groups across the city and they go to postnatal wards etc to help new mothers

It might be a small company run by two lactation consultants or similar, but they will have a contract with the local NHS trust (or they wouldnt be allowed in the hospital) or public health, or whoever is paying them.

They must have had their training and accreditation from some organisation or other.

These are two avenues for complaints.

You should be able to find out who they are from the venue or their advertising materials, and you should be able to find out who commissions the service. If you talked to the leader privately and she told you not to come back because you don't share her beliefs about how men can be breastfeeding mothers etc then they have discriminated against you.

I suggest contacting "with woman" who are gender critical. They might have some advice. Here's their twitter. https://x.com/WeAreWithWoman

You lost me at the part where you referred to transwomen as mothers. And no, I don’t think we should all just pipe down and focus on ourselves because this is a society-wide issue. We’ve been piping down long enough, it’s time for that to change. Trans people are valid, this person in question - their experience is valid and real to them. But it does not make it right that a group of breastfeeding women feel uncomfortable at a breastfeeding support group because a male is there.

The fact that you’re a breastfeeding counsellor means nothing as La Leche League shows. Do you think men who pretend to be women can and should be helped to breastfeed or not? If not, we’re on the same side. If you do, as you were…

But they are a Trans Woman, not a Man!

@Cailleach1 I know that’s only one paper, and only an abstract, but I’ve read about male lactation several times, but unfortunately the current internet obsession with ‘trans-women’ means that when I was looking for studies I got bogged down in fetish nonsense, and honestly, I lost the will to live.

Which means they are a man.

The MAN fathered a child with his sperm a year ago he hasn’t magically turned into a woman in the intervening months.

They are the same thing. There is nothing different between the two things. I understand some people may find it offensive but it is reality.