Just been “unfriended” for believing in biology

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

I posted links about the Supreme Court ruling on my fb feed and have just been unfriended and blocked by a real life friend.
I hadn’t seen her for a long time so we had never talked about the issue because the last time we met (about 8 years ago) transgender wasn’t a thing. Well certainly not in my little corner of the UK anyway.
I am bemused. This is someone I had helped a lot with certain situations. She knows me, she knows that I am a kind and decent person.
But now because I post about the legal reclamation of the word woman I am suddenly persona non grata.
I have friends of differing views on all sorts of topics and we accept that we don’t have to agree on everything. Clearly this particular friend can’t accommodate diverse opinions.
So much for tolerance and inclusion then.

'terf' was not coined by us, it is a slur trans activists created for us. Because, yes, they consider wanting female only spaces for rape survivors like me and for women and girls to be 'radical'. 20 years ago, having female only spaces was not a 'radical' concept. It was taken as read. That it is now considered 'radical' is evidence of how dangerously extreme trans activists are.

Males no longer able to enter female only spaces is their problem, it's not our problem. They created the problem for themselves in the first place by invading a space they never had a right to enter, and never even consulted us first, as usual. It's a problem of their own making. There are good decent real transwomen who don't enter female spaces. They are the good ones, and they prove it's doable to use male facilities (and have said they've never had problems). If these transwomen can do it, so can your friend! No excuses.

It's always women who hold ourselves back from celebrating something because others might not be happy. It's just an example of socialisation and programming of the female sex. Always prioritise others (namely males) before yourself.

Do honestly think if the ruling went the trans' way, they wouldn't be celebrating? Be honest with yourself on that.

Honestly I would unfriend anyone who spouted transphobic views so it definitely depends on what you said.
I don't want to see that sort of thing on my social media

Women shouldn’t unreservedly and joyfully celebrate the ruling? Because it’s considered extremist if we do?! We’re the extremists for acknowledging and understanding biological reality?! We’re should just know our place, and accept any tiny crumbs from the table of this regressive, misogynistic, homophobic ideology?

I love these posts, they start out being all reasonable and citing people that they know, and that these people are just harmless, it’s a problem we all need to solve isn’t it? Then they become patronising and insulting. It’s a bit of a tired script now.

The acronym ‘TERF’ is a slur by the way, it’s usually wheeled out once the bullying has failed.

This.

Feminism? You don't want to see feminism on your social media? But you're here on a feminist discussion board, talking to feminists?

And @Rklap doesn't it concern you that your friend was so entitled he decided he had the right to invade female spaces, without a single thought to how that would affect us? To me it's just proof of his Male Entitlement. Good, decent transwomen has not been using female spaces. Your friend is a selfish person and not a nice decent person. He took what wasn't his, he entered spaces that he never had the right to enter, and did he ever consult with any of the women? No! So excuse me if I don't feel one bit of sympathy for these colonisers and boundary breakers as they show Male Entitlement and Male Pattern Thought Process. This transwomen I feel for are those wo did the right thing from the start and didn't enter our spaces at all, to begin with. The good decent ones. Not the selfish, narcissistic entitled males who broke our boundaries. They get zero sympathy as they did the wrong thing to begin with.

What’s your definition of transphobia? I don’t believe people can change sex, I believe TW are men and TM are women, is that transphobia?

I really wish one of you that mentions it would give us a definition, none of you seem to want to be specific.

Haven’t you heard? According to @Rklap Mumsnet is an extremist platform where us pesky women who understand biological reality come to chat.

There is indeed a straightforward solution and there always has been; third spaces. But trans activists namely transwomen, refused this compromise because it doesn't validate them as women. If they spent this time agreeing with, and advocating for arranging third spaces rather than tearing away, stomping on and in some cases - urinating on - female spaces and monuments, they would be ahead by now and they wouldn't be having any problems. They wanted 100% all-or-nothing, no compromise no debate. Well, they got the nothing. They should have worked with us and agreed on the compromise, which if this truly was about 'safety' and not merely validation, they would have.

So, all their problems are of their own making. They have absolutely no one else to blame but themselves. I only feel sympathy for the genuine real proper decent and good transwomen who did the right thing and stayed out of female only spaces. Anyone who used female spaces I hope they suffer and feel no sympathy.

Right. Didn't realise I had to specify that I was anti-paedophile. Ffs.

terfs want a solution to only suit women and TRAs want a solution that only suits them. The two sides aren’t willing to acknowledge each other's issues.

Will you please, please don't lie. What you've said is DEMONSTRABLY UNTRUE. It is us 'terfs' that advocated for third spaces. So males, females and trans or gender non-conforming can feel comfortable.

WE came up with a solution. They rejected it. It's fine to support your friend, but please, please at least don't lie.

You're a well-practiced gaslighter I see. It's the TRAs like her friend that unfriend someone in order to create an echo chamber. The OP said they wouldn't unfriend anyone over this, or politics, or anything. So HOW is she after the echochamber, when she is not the one doing the unfriending? Make it make sense!

Yes @Somethingthecatdraggedin7 it's weird that it's this one issue that divides people in this extreme way - and that it's generally people on only one side of the issue who cannot tolerate anyone thinking differently.

I'm a good old feminist (ie sex matters & is real; gender is a construct and oppresses women) but I have colleagues who are trans, or voluble trans allies and I don't cut them off. There's a lot I'd love to discuss with them about their beliefs, in the way that at 14, as a passionate atheist, I loved to discuss religion with devout Christians. But I don't raise the subject because those who advocate extremist gender ideology seem (mostly) incapable of a rational conversation about it.

I'm just fascinated to know why we can rub along with people of all sorts of religions & political beliefs, but this one topic is so unspeakable.

There are three solutions.

Transwomen/men only allowed to access their own sex, transwomen/men allowed to choose and third spaces.

Women said "we want to protect single sex spaces because men can exploit the grey area and we aren't particularly comfortable with males who have transitioned for various reasons". They did NOT say transpeople must ONLY use their own sex.

Women said that they understand concerns about privacy and proposed the third space option. That was rejected as being unacceptable because ultimately it turns out that validation by women is the goal, not access to the space.

Its all about the use of women, not the use of the facilities.

We have been talking about this for years. At first we were TOLD there was 'No Debate'. We didn't get a choice. Well screw that. We are worthy of being listened to.

Ultimately this about demanding something and then having a tantrum when equality of privacy dictates that trans people need to consider the feelings of the opposite sex whether they like it or not.

I'm way past the 'being nice' to people who have been absoluete shit heads to others wanting to find a reasonable workable third solution.

The words at this point are 'tough shit' you've burnt through all possible good will.

But you'd accepted friends who spout femphobic views?

If biology and mother nature is 'transphobic', we are truly fucked as a humanity. Truly brainwashed.

‘I'm just fascinated to know why we can rub along with people of all sorts of religions & political beliefs, but this one topic is so unspeakable.’

For me, it’s the medical experimentation on children, removing the healthy breasts of young ND women is utterly horrific and cannot ever be justified, as is the prescription of PB, quite apart from the huge harms visited on women who refuse to comply. This ideology requires complete adherence to the mantras, complete validation of anything that is said on any given day with no discussion and no debate. It’s insidious and harmful.

Yes, not even gay rights was this divisive, nor did people as passionately defend gay rights. What is it about this one issue that makes people lose their heads and become the equivalent of flat-earther science deniers?

I can only feel that it's about plain old-fashioned patriarchy and maintaining the 'order' of mens rights and status over women.

It's definitely a tricky issue now with friends I find. I had an old friend to stay who is 20 years younger than me and who I've always thought had a wise head on young shoulders, but she recently has come out as pansexual (although now is with a man), and we almost fell out over the non binary /trans debate, she is very pro trans - with her ending up saying in a rather nasty tone to me 'but your generation is going to die out aren't you?!'. (I'm not entirely sure our friendship has actually recovered.) What irks me (a lot) is the casual way some on the pro trans side treat facts and biology as if they are enirely outmoded concepts and can just be discarded - gender is ONLY a performative choice. Thereby seeking to dissolve the foundations on which women's rights, the feminist movement was built!? It's laughable. But we do need to keep the dialogue going. Another mate I have, mum at the school, has a boy under 10 who is already presenting as a girl. I really want to keep this friendship, so yeah, I am going to tread carefully.

I’m not a gaslighter.

I questioned what OP wanted by posting on Mumsnet. Did she want an explanation of why she was unfriended (she stated she was bemused) or did she want Mumsnetters in an echo chamber to say that her friend was wrong?

Not sure why you think I’m a gaslighter.

The echo chamber comment related to me questioning her reason for posting on mumsnet - ie what did OP want? An explanation for her unfriending on social media or to hear people in the MN echo chamber console her and say her friend was wrong.

The echo chamber comment did not relate to her social media.

Fair enough.

The reason why we can rub along with people of all sorts of religions & political beliefs, but this one topic is so unspeakable, is because those who advocate extremist gender ideology seem (mostly) incapable of a rational conversation about it AND take it out on the other side of the #nodebate.

I have “spouted” nothing. As I explained, I posted links from Fair Pay for Women about the supreme court judgement.