Just been “unfriended” for believing in biology

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

I posted links about the Supreme Court ruling on my fb feed and have just been unfriended and blocked by a real life friend.
I hadn’t seen her for a long time so we had never talked about the issue because the last time we met (about 8 years ago) transgender wasn’t a thing. Well certainly not in my little corner of the UK anyway.
I am bemused. This is someone I had helped a lot with certain situations. She knows me, she knows that I am a kind and decent person.
But now because I post about the legal reclamation of the word woman I am suddenly persona non grata.
I have friends of differing views on all sorts of topics and we accept that we don’t have to agree on everything. Clearly this particular friend can’t accommodate diverse opinions.
So much for tolerance and inclusion then.

No, not passing in all circumstances. I think that in a women’s toilet queue, yes friend would pass (as long as not spoken to - voice deeper than most women). In a men’s toilet queue (not that they queue obvs!) people would definitely stare/wonder because of the obvious female appearance. So that would be very awkward - and then no penis to use urinals anyway.

In general, people might wonder if friend is trans, but not be sure.

WOMENS RIGHTS are not 'anti trans'. Unless you are ADMITTING that being pro trans is anti-women.

Yes, I very clearly do believe that it is the responsibility of whoever is dealing with the problems to make sure everyone has a place to urinate that doesn’t make them unsafe or uncomfortable. And that includes it being the responsibility of women if they are actively involved in the issue - because the problem of women’s safety doesn’t exist in a vacuum. We are in a society containing a variety of people and if we are addressing the women’s toilet issue, then we need to address the toilet issue as a whole. I think that’s the whole problem - terfs want a solution to only suit women and TRAs want a solution that only suits them. The two sides aren’t willing to acknowledge each other's issues.

So you broadly agree with the idea of women having rights, but you won't say so because you don't want to worry or upset the people who don't think women should have rights?

It's not a womans toilet issue, that's been perfectly clarified, it's a male issue. If they want our help though, maybe they can start with a massive fucking apology to women for illegally using our spaces, for the rape and death threats, to the women and girls who have been violently attacked, to the women who have been cancelled or fired, to the women who have had medals stolen etc. That'd be a good start, don't you think?

Thank you. Not passing much at all then.

I wouldn't want them in women's toilets. 10 years ago, no issue. But transpeople let the TRAs steamroller them, and now we should... oh yeah "be kind"? No.

And for sure I am celebrating confirmation of what most of us already knew. Women in general and many individuals had their lives utterly ruined by the TRAs. What do you think things would be like now if the judgement had gone the other way? Would anyone tolerate FWS supporters saying "the celebrations are misplaced" or launching a fundraiser to challenge it? Or announcing that we would carry on breaking the law?

FWS supporters have been very restrained imo

The vast majority, 92% from medical information, of transwomen retain their penis and testicles for life. Now, how do you suppose we tell who has had the operation, and who hasn't?

Regardless, they will still be demonstrably male in the face, gait, limb size, height etc etc and they lack the experience of womanhood and girls getting periods and growing into a woman, they have no understanding about why we need dignity and privacy away from the male gaze. He has no lived experience as a female and will make women uncomfortable.

You can't say there has been 'no issue', he would have been clocked and as has been said repeatedly on here, women are too afraid to say anything, so that makes us look complicit and like we consent to him being in there, when we don't.

A dick, chopped up the side, turned inside out, and shoved into a makeshift cavity, which keeps trying to close itself, is still a dick. It does not a woman, make.

It’s not up to women to solve the issue of where men who do this to themselves go to pee.

This misses a rather fundamental point - either we have single sex spaces or we don't.

If the question had been "should TW be in men's toilets, women's toilets or should we consider special provision in terms of 3rd spaces?" and the conclusion was "TWAM, they need to be forced to hoist up their dress and piss at the urinals with the other men" then I would have some sympathy with you.

But that was not the question, the question was "do women (and LGB people, and men) have sex based rights?" and I am sorry - it is 100% acceptable to celebrate that the answer is "yes" and 100% unacceptable to disagree. IMO

I have a friend who knows me very well who kicked off because she was said she couldn't cope with ME being triggered.

I was talking about the Tavistock.

Given the Cass Review has fully back my position I've lost no sleep and am amused at who is actually the one who is triggered.

I can't believe what I've just read.

Women have spent the last ten years being told that they have to welcome these men into their spaces whether they like it or not. That to object is bigoted, transphobic, even illegal.

We have been told that we have to include these men because they're not comfortable using the spaces that already exist for men, and that if we don't feel comfortable sharing our spaces with these men, that's just tough shit. Because we're just bigots who need to reframe our trauma. Because how these men feel matters to society and how we feel doesn't.

Despite the fact that we didn't create this problem, many of us have in fact proposed the obvious solution. Third spaces.

A solution which has been rejected out of hand by trans activists because it is "othering". Because no solution other than them being in our spaces with us whether we consent or not is acceptable to them.

At this point, we are more than entitled to say, "Fuck 'em. It's up to men to find a solution to this entirely man made problem. No is a complete sentence."

And please stop using that misogynistic slur.

Exactly. And OP has already said that she wouldn’t unfriend them if it was the other way round.

What is the middle ground between women having sex-based rights and women not having those rights? There is none.

The only middle ground of any sort (and it still involves a subset of men having special privileges) is third spaces for TW. The decision did not forbid third spaces. It did not forbid the closest thing we have to a middle ground?

@Somethingthecatdraggedin7

on the one hand you state that if people don’t want to see the type of things you post they can unfollow you

yet here you are outraged that one of your friend has done just that

Shared toilets / urinals are awkward for all men, not just one's who claim to identify as women. Men's toilets have cubicles (men do poos, sometimes, pooing is not just a women's thing!)

Why is it anti trans to think a person of the male sex can become a trans female. A person born a female can become a trans man? But not a woman or man, my husband was born male and is a man. Had he been born female and changed sex he would be a trans man. I was born female so am a woman. Had I been born male I would be a trans woman. I am genuinely confused at all of the hatred this debate engenders. And if we only have friends that share our views we live in echo chambers rather than have considered views.

Unfollow is not the same as unfriending and blocking someone in the middle of a chat.
Unfollow on fb simply means that you only see that person’s posts if you want to.

Genuine question, what’s your definition of transphobia? I don’t believe people can change sex, TW are men and TM are women, is that transphobia?

So you somehow know what I post on fb?
Thanks for trying to “help me” though.

Nope, I bet your cat doesn't agree with you on the topic of vegetarianism and probably wouldn't stay friends with you if you tried to feed them broccoli 😂😂

That sounds a bit sarky. You said you were bemused at your unfriending, so I tried to unpick it for you. What else were you hoping for, by posting your OP? It seems like you might just have wanted echo chamber feminism based on this.

He is still a male and went through male puberty, same as your friend is a male and went through male puberty. De-nutting a male dog doesn't mean it's no longer male.

Yes sadly I agree. And have already accepted there is no friendship.
Luckily for me I have plenty of friends who don’t think in such black and white terms.
In fact one of my best friends is pretty much my polar opposite as she is a life long tory voter who loved thatcher and we really enjoy a good debate over a glass of something.

But you very much are debating the rights and wrongs of toilet users, you specifically asked the question about what toilets your trans friend should use!

The plain fact is this wasn’t an issue until the introduction by Stonewall of TWAW and no debate. Women didn’t cause this issue, so why should we solve it? It’s largely a man issue, TM have mysteriously only been dragged into the debate since the SC ruling.

If you’re so concerned about it then start campaigning for a third space, but good luck with that, because the people who follow this ideology have made it clear they won’t accept it, full capitulation by women and acceptance of their delusions are the only thing they will settle for.

As I have explained to someone else, unfollow is not the same as unfriend and block. And I am not “outraged”, I was surprised, bemused and a bit sad.