Just been “unfriended” for believing in biology

[Somethingthecatdraggedin7]

I posted links about the Supreme Court ruling on my fb feed and have just been unfriended and blocked by a real life friend.
I hadn’t seen her for a long time so we had never talked about the issue because the last time we met (about 8 years ago) transgender wasn’t a thing. Well certainly not in my little corner of the UK anyway.
I am bemused. This is someone I had helped a lot with certain situations. She knows me, she knows that I am a kind and decent person.
But now because I post about the legal reclamation of the word woman I am suddenly persona non grata.
I have friends of differing views on all sorts of topics and we accept that we don’t have to agree on everything. Clearly this particular friend can’t accommodate diverse opinions.
So much for tolerance and inclusion then.

You do understand that a “trans woman” is any male person who says he is a woman? Or do you have some alternative, more precise definition, @ninjahamster?

YouGov

There is public scepticism towards allowing trans people to use gendered spaces, and particularly when it comes to trans women.
Almost half of Britons say that transgender men should not be allowed use men’s toilets (47%) or changing rooms (49%) – higher than the 32-35% who would permit it. For transgender women, resistance to allowing toilet and changing room access increases to 55% and 58%, respectively. Additionally, 52% of Britons say trans women should not be allowed to use women’s refuges for victims of rape or assault.
Such opposition increases further in our follow-up questions asking specifically about transgender people who had not undergone gender reassignment surgery.
In terms of the wider principle, most Britons (55%) say they believe that allowing transgender women to use spaces reserved for women, such as women's toilets or changing rooms, “presents a genuine risk of harm to women”.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51545-where-does-the-british-public-stand-on-transgender-rights-in-202425

Maybe she doesn't want to debate a topic with someone she hasn't seen for 8 years and it is easier to just remove her. Do people want to debate ?most of the time both sides just want to give their view and are not interested in the other side other than to disagree . I have removed people who have posted things I fundamentally disagree with.

The toilet argument minimises the point of this so much. Trans women (passing and not passing) have used ladies loos in many bars and clubs I’ve been in since the early 90s. No big deal made and no-one cared. It’s the loud entitled campaigners that have spoiled things for the genuine TW. But it’s not toilets, it’s jails, rape centres etc. Arguing about toilets dilutes the real issue

Even the big burly bearded ones with cocks?

Is that really true though? In all circumstances? If you ended up in jail, would you be happy to share your cell with a man ('transwoman')?

What about race - can you change that too? Don't you care about deeply upsetting and denying the convictions of white people who insist they are black or old people who insist they are young?

Everybody is entitled to believe what they want, but it just sounds totally illogical to believe you can change your sex (as you originally said) but not another fixed biological characteristic.

It's a bit like saying that, of course, you believe in blue monsters that hide under the bed; but people who believe in green monsters that hide under the bed are mad.

Once you've willingly got on to the ladder of denial of obvious biological reality, it seems very strange to climb up an arbitrary number of rungs before suddenly declaring that the ladder itself no longer exists.

And do you change for one 'gender' to another? What changes?

Well as a female I am NOT happy sharing these intimate spaces with males who have penis and testicles. And you do not have the right to give my or our consent away to male-free spaces. We say NO.

That's not true at all. Yes, it's about other things, but it IS about toilets too. If you read the arguments about needing somewhere to flee from men, women miscarrying, women changing/adjusting themselves at sinks, rinsing out stained underwear/milk-stained blouses, mooncups etc etc.

Girls at school are staying away on the days they have their period as they have nowhere to change their sanpro without boys being there. Or hold it in all day. Basically going back to the days of Period Poverty. In 2025!

Women on here have said they restrict fluids at work so they don't have to use the toilets. Risking a UTI, which can cause sepsis.

This is a very serious issue, so I beg you please don't minimise this.

Toilets should not be written out of this. In fact, it's the gateway issue, because all women and girls need to visit a toilet every day. Not every woman or girl will have needs for the others.

Interesting how everyone wants to change my mind. I am entitled to my opinion and won’t be swayed!

Yes, yes, we know. That's why 'no debate' was such a mantra of gender ideology - you stick to your mantras in the face of overwhelming evidence while the rest of us continue to discuss things like adults.

It's the TRA way, after all!

Sure you are.

But you've no evidence to support that opinion, it's entirely faith based.

Thats your prerogative of course, but it's like being a flat earther or having any other unsubstantiated opinion

I’m not in the least interested in changing your opinion, I’m interested in demonstrating why it’s poorly thought through and irrational.

Do you have trans friends? I am guided by those I care very deeply for. Seeing them able to live their life as the person they want to be is transformative. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to feel trapped in the wrong body. I’m very happy to refer to them as the gender they want to be.

Good for you. I’m interested in women’s rights and not being forced to lie.

That's nice.

Since when did you have the right to consent on anyone else's behalf?

Try and be empathetic against anyone who doesn't consent and think why they might withhold consent...

so you are influenced by men who want to appropriate womanhood and use women’s spaces? Of course it’s transformative always to be affirmed and told “yes of course you can”.

Nobody is trapped in the wrong body. That is impossible. We are our bodies. Would you agree with an anorexic that they are fat and need to strictly control their diet?

And if you are happy to refer to them as the gender they want to be, what is gender and why should it govern who is permitted to use specific single sex spaces?

I agree and I am fully for single sex toilets - but the toilet argument is easier to dismiss - let us pee in peace etc can seem reasonable. My point is that some young women may be ok to share a toilet because they have experienced this in bars and clubs for years with no issues - so easy to dismiss and minimise. Very few have had to experience sharing prison cell or rape counselling centres.
But yes - most female supporters of mixed sex loos at school didn’t have to experience them. I suspect they would have a very different view if they had.

I'm trans. That doesn't stop me from understanding why women need their single-sex spaces.

@ninjahamster why do people with dysphoria have priority over people without dysphoria?

Can you see a difference between a woman dying her hair blond in order to fit in better and boost her status in a sex and looks based world, and, say, a man having his penis inverted and take hormones to grow tits he can play with in order to try to persuade other people he is a woman when he is objectively a man?

As a male I am unhappy sharing spaces with trans women.

Neither your statement nor mine have any bearing on women's rights to single sex spaces, and the right of men to access men's spaces however they claim to identify.

I believe that everyone who goes to bars and clubs has the right to single sex spaces, however I suppose I do also believe that there is probably a certain type of sex/fetish club where one can legitimately say "we don't believe in boundaries at all, so long as you are 18 - toilet are mixed" and this suits everyone who has no boundaries and wishes to attend.

As a male I am unhappy sharing spaces with trans women.

Why exactly? Is it because of the dissonance that TWs present? That's certainly how I feel - they aren't women, and I don't know how to relate to them. I can see it might be the same for men. Seeing a man in a frock at the urinals must be odd. But see the film Cabaret, where there is exactly such a scene.