Is anyone worried about pressure now to change the Equality legislation?

[Unbeleevable]

There's a lot of wisdom in this forum - I wondered in the happy afterglow of the very clear-cut SC and EHCR pronouncements on biological sex … is there a risk that behind this, someone is pulling strings to publish strong statements hoping this will to trigger a surge of pro-trans-rights sentiment leading to a widespread acceptance the EA must change to encompass rights based on declared gender identity? And eventually a political mandate for the same?

In other words - we can’t expect the TRAs will give up. Have we won the battle but not the war?

I have long felt I have landed on the wrong side of history in my GC convictions - I can’t shake the feeling that the recent developments are too good to be true.

If you had any empathy, you wouldn't be VIOLATING the spaces and boundaries of females. You possess strong Male Entitlement. There is no empathy in you. You don't give a stuff how rape survivors like me feel, or DV victims feel, or any women or girls feel. You only care about what you want.

I sincerely hope what you call “normal life” doesn’t include continued use of women’s spaces.
You are male, and you think you pass because no one has ever told you that you don’t. Not because you actually do.
Live your best life, but keep the hell out of our spaces. You aren’t a woman in any sense whatsoever.

Women - rational explanation

Poster - you don't understand me <flounce>

Another real-time demonstration of why women NEED cast iron protections in law from men.

“Mammalian brains went through millions of years of evolution to evolve sex recognition system based on genitals and secondary sex characteristics”

This is such male oriented thinking.

err. No. Mammalian female brains are highly likely to recognise the correct sex of a male person without seeing genitals. Skeletons, gait, voice and just movement are give aways that cannot be changed.

But hey… way to insulate yourself from inconvenient truths by believing more falsity.

It's not up to women to filter out 'acceptable' and 'non acceptable ' men in our space, its up to trans people to campaign for their own.

This also shows that it isnt about safety - why haven't the trans community put any limits on who is trans? Any dangerous man can claim transnessand be accepted.

Being from the 90s is the first time ive heard that as an insult, so top marks for that.

It could be said that a person telling the people they are harming (because those people refuse to act as if they believe a falsehood ) to have empathy for the people that are harming them is a sign of narcissism.

All because women say ‘no thank you. No male people in female single sex spaces, and those male people should never have been there !’

Mammalian brains went through millions of years of evolution to evolve sex recognition system based on genitals and secondary sex characteristics

I’m not a biologist, but presumably if humans have evolved to recognise the sex of other humans (which I don’t doubt, although I know I don’t need to see someone’s genitalia to know their sex), doesn’t that mean it was important for our survival that we could differentiate between the sexes, and that people who couldn’t died as a result?

Surely that makes a stronger argument for single sex spaces, so we don’t have to constantly be on high alert for people who might be the opposite sex when we’re in a vulnerable situation?

@Invi I just wonder if you ever consider direction your ire towards the TRAs and AGPs who have made this situation more difficult for the old fashioned trans sexuals? Perhaps if there hadn't been overreach we wouldn't have had to ask for clarity.

Or, are women really to blame for everything?

It's interesting that despite tales of short haired lesbians being mistaken for men inside public toilets, this doesn't seem to translate into male advantage outside toilets - rather as though people can tell the difference.

Very good point.

What is unmissable now too, is that the two male posters here telling us that they are not going to stop, don’t realise that this is shining a beacon on them as people who disregard other’s boundaries. There doesn’t even seem to be any attempt to recognise other’s boundaries.

Imagine thinking that posting that you are not going to respect female people’s needs is something you can be proud about. And what it says to all the new eyes that are reading this board right now.

May I ask you, why do you expect someone who lived as a woman over a decade, have female friends, career, family and whole circle of friends who don't know about my past to disclose?

@Invi any parents/siblings would know about your past so does this mean you have a partner (or their relatives) that is unaware?
I find it difficult to believe a partner wouldn't know you are trans- not to mention the ethics of such deception. As for close friends, are they truly friends if they don't know you?

Also using male spaces as UK expects of people like me would be humiliating, loss of dignity and I cannot even imagine male stare at my body in changing room.

And just like JKR, my irony meter exploded

@Invi

May I ask you, why do you expect someone who lived as a woman over a decade, have female friends, career, family and whole circle of friends who don't know about my past to disclose?

I think you mean "posing as a woman." I can guarantee you that nobody has been duped, it's simply that people want to get on with a conflict free life and haven't said anything to you.

That's not least because, even now, women are likely to be bullied and cancelled, if they dare to object.

The men's, or unisex toilets are for you, don't worry, after the first couple of times, it will all seem normal to you again.

Answer to that question would place me among pariah class which is now labeled as problem, as mentally ill, incapable, dangerous (thanks for that)

I love how they blame women for people thinking they're dangerous, while simultaneously saying fuck you women, I'm invading your spaces whether you like it or not.

I mean they don't get it anyway, none of it. But this phenomenon is so common you'd think one of them would recognise it. Stop saying we're awful <acts awful>

@Invi it seems you've decided you don't want to continue this conversation but I'll respond to your question to me here both in case you change your mind, and because I think it's worthwhile trying to get my head around what's going on for stealth living trans women.
"May I ask you, why do you expect someone who lived as a woman over a decade, have female friends, career, family and whole circle of friends who don't know about my past to disclose? Why would I do that? That's a sincere question."
So you don't think you could comply with the SC ruling and remain stealth?
I can see that that would involve a huge disruption in your life but in truth I don't understand the motivation behind disguising my sex from others in the way you have - in fact, hiding the reality of my whole childhood and early adult life from them. So, I don't know why you would keep doing it. In my opinion, finally being able to tell the truth about myself and my past would feel like a liberation, so, I don't know why you wouldn't want to do that.
"Not using female bathroom for example would pose a question why. Answer to that question would place me among pariah class which is now labeled as problem, as mentally ill, incapable, dangerous (thanks for that)."
I find your phrasing here, "labeled as a problem", really worrying. I feel like, male people get to have experiences. Female people label their experiences. They can't directly describe the experience of getting changed infront of a male person - even a male person who looks female - as humiliating, triggering, a problem. That is just a label they give the experience (in a manipulative, never genuine, way).
"Also using male spaces as UK expects of people like me would be humiliating, loss of dignity and I cannot even imagine male stare at my body in changing room. That's insanity and that's why ECtHR will rule against it.
This whole concept of passing trans women in men's rooms will never work because it's counter intuitive."
I agree that a male person who has had medical and surgical treatment resulting in extensive feminisation of their body shouldn't be sharing a communal changing room with male people. I can see that you, having made those changes to your body on the understanding that all members of society would then be happy for you to use amenities and services set aside for female people, are put out by the being forced to acknowledge that many women do not consent to this.
I still believe that the best way forward in the UK is for there to be no wavering on the SC decision and EHRC guidelines, so that there is no future misunderstanding - any person who choses to make extensive cosmetic changes to their body will do so on the understanding that this does not entitle them to access services and amenities for people of the opposite sex. What happened to you shouldn't happen again, not because the law should force female people to share previously sex segregated spaces and services with sufficiently feminised male people, but because the law should be really clear that sex segregation means sex segregation.
"Mammalian brains went through millions of years of evolution to evolve sex recognition system based on genitals and secondary sex characteristics. Courts nor governments can legislate that out."
I have little to no time for evo-psych (imo pseudo-) science, whether it's trans or sex realist posters using it, so I'll just leave this paragraph.

The disconnected thinking just keeps coming.

Yes, the deception thing is so disgraceful, underhanded and typical of Toxic Masculinity. It's a male thing to do. I don't believe in a million years that poster passes. There are so many tells, facial skeletal structure - male jawbone, square longer and thicker skull, longer and wider philtrum, and that's before we get to gait (due to differences in pelvic musculoskeletal structure), even the way males stand (feet apart pointed outwards, whereas women tend to stand with feet together and straight). Then there is adams apple, voice, height, hand and feet size etc. Males are so clueless they have abso-lutely NO idea how different their body is from females. Putting lippy on does nothing at all to hide the tells.

As we know, it is polite not to point out that we 'know' someone (usually speaking MTF here) is trans. Soooo.... the poster will assume they pass. No males will ever truly pass (FTM can occasionally). Ever. No matter what they do. They all seem to have magic mirrors at home, and/or with the help of their enablers, genuinely think they pass. They have no understanding of the tells.

But putting all this aside; the deception (if they believe they pass) of friends and colleagues is disgusting and really shows how sordid this all is. It makes it seem like a dirty secret, a fetish. The level of deception involved from not telling colleagues to invading womens spaces knowing they are for the female sex, so they know they shouldn't be there - but they go anyway, regardless of the affect they have on women and girls - is truly horrific. It's self absorbed and shows a lack of empathy and contrition for what they are doing. It really goes to show that this is male entitlement, male privilege, and a symptom of toxic masculinity.

That "over a decade" bit passed me by. So the poster has only lived as a woman for a bit over a decade. In other words, their masculinity would be extremely strong still. It's not like it's been 40 or 50 years. A decade is nothing. And unless they had their adams apple removed and had Facial Feminisation Surgery (ie had their skull bone shaved down and re-shaped), as well as vocal cord surgery - there is NO.....WAY they pass as a woman. No way! The poster is deluding themself.

Friends, family and colleagues do not do these poor males a service by acting like they pass. It's cruel to do that. They're not challenged (I wonder why!) and/or not questioned/told, so they genuinely truly think they pass. They don't. They never can. Outside of filters on the internet. They'd have to have extensive Craniofacial reconstructive surgery, vocal cord surgery, surgery to pelvic bone area etc in order to pass. These men are batshit delusional and cannot see themselves in the mirror the way we females do. It's cruel. It's cruel to them. It's cruel to posters like Invi. It is truly, truly cruel to not tell them the truth. I likened it on another thread to a very bad singer auditioning for Idol. We/the judges are cringing at the auditioner (auditionee??) who is so out of tune it's woeful. Yet, you know? Somewhere, their family and friends told them they can sing. And that auditioner truly thinks they can prove us wrong.

It's like that. It's fucking cruel to do this posters like Invi. Because sooner or later, reality hits. And they could have been prevented that blow or somehow the blow been softened. So while I despise the deception and colonising and invading our spaces, I feel sympathy for some of them because they were never told the truth. And when the truth really truly hits, it will fucking hurt them. I don't like the idea of people being hurt. Even if they are hurting us, too.

Let’s not forget, that it is illegal to undertake a sexual relationship without disclosing that you are not the sex you have allowed a sex partner to believe you are.

In the case of having sex, it says all you need to say about the person though that those who don’t disclose don’t care about consent of others.

I also suspect that as these male people with transgender identities age, they pass less and less.

Their voices drop lower still and roughen, their features change to become like older male people not like older female people.

With close female friends I discuss and share things that I would never disclose to a man. They may see me in a state of undress sometimes. Share hotel rooms. They know me in a way a man never would
Not that it would ever happen, but if I discovered that one of these friends was actually a man I would feel violated beyond words.
While I can understand in a way someone wanting to completely kill the person they felt they were before transitioning, going on to deceive friends or partners in this way shows they are only thinking about themselves and couldn't give a shit about anyone else in their life.

Indeed GreenFriedTomato.

I would think many women would react similarly to discovering that they had shared intimate moments with a male person thinking they were sharing as a female person. It is a very male perspective that cannot understand this.

The key point is that women are not allowed to say no in the minds of these males.

At best this makes them see women as only service humans with no real agency of their own.

At worse it's about wanting to actively control and use women against their will.

Both are unacceptable and a good enough reason to say 'no we don't want males in our spaces'.

The fact they refuse to understand and see this, merely adds to this effect.

No, I don’t think that will happen. Both the two main parties have come out to strongly fighting that they are the party that has always defended single sex spaces, and always will. They’ve staked themselves too strongly to back down. I’m heartened that Labour took days to respond to the SC as it means their position was one they considered carefully and are committed to.

Also, the TRAs tried to get their changes in under the radar as they knew they were unpopular. They can’t do that now. The public does not support the loss of single sex spaces and sports. The government would have to get rid of them under the full light of day and be responsible for the inevitable high news stories that would result. KS can not survive any more ridicule for saying some women have penis’. He won’t want to go there. Politicians can survive anger but not ridicule and being laughed at. And that’s what happened to KS. He was being made a laughing stock at every interview. It would be too politically unpopular to try to get rid of single sex spaces now.