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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is anyone worried about pressure now to change the Equality legislation?

271 replies

Unbeleevable · 26/04/2025 01:27

There's a lot of wisdom in this forum - I wondered in the happy afterglow of the very clear-cut SC and EHCR pronouncements on biological sex … is there a risk that behind this, someone is pulling strings to publish strong statements hoping this will to trigger a surge of pro-trans-rights sentiment leading to a widespread acceptance the EA must change to encompass rights based on declared gender identity? And eventually a political mandate for the same?

In other words - we can’t expect the TRAs will give up. Have we won the battle but not the war?

I have long felt I have landed on the wrong side of history in my GC convictions - I can’t shake the feeling that the recent developments are too good to be true.

OP posts:
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CodandChipz · 29/04/2025 09:05

Isn’t it time all these many any passing real life people made themselves known. And I don’t mean all the people sharing heavily staged/filtered images of themselves online, but all these apparent stealth transpeople.
My friends DD posts some convincing photos of themselves online. Unfortunately the pictures her mum posts show her looking like a middle aged woman.
we are being told they are everywhere but they are never interviewed?

I suspect the obsession by so many TAs to medicate children was to produce trans people who passed better. Then wouldn’t they be proved right, thank god there’s been a stop to it.

The man I saw last week online, the middle aged balding man with boobs, clearly thought he passed as he had ‘never been challenged’ because…he had boobs. I suspect a lot of them think boobs, lipstick etc is enough, they don’t see women as real people just a lot of parts.

Datun · 29/04/2025 09:08

I suspect a lot of them think boobs, lipstick etc is enough, they don’t see women as real people just a lot of parts.

💯

WarriorN · 29/04/2025 09:22

Wouldn’t that wipe all the maternity rights for trans men? And various other medical rights fro both sexes

TheCourseOfTheRiverChanged · 29/04/2025 09:57

Helleofabore · 29/04/2025 07:56

I also suspect that as these male people with transgender identities age, they pass less and less.

Their voices drop lower still and roughen, their features change to become like older male people not like older female people.

Facial feminisation surgery involves shaving bones, and can result in a face that (imo) passes for female. But the DNA hasn't been changed and as the body heals these bones will return to (male) form. Further surgery isn't really safe, though there are surgeons who will do repeated plastic surgery on a patient. I have no doubt that there are people who are given FFS without clear explanations of how their body will heal itself over the coming decades.

Helleofabore · 29/04/2025 10:44

TheCourseOfTheRiverChanged · 29/04/2025 09:57

Facial feminisation surgery involves shaving bones, and can result in a face that (imo) passes for female. But the DNA hasn't been changed and as the body heals these bones will return to (male) form. Further surgery isn't really safe, though there are surgeons who will do repeated plastic surgery on a patient. I have no doubt that there are people who are given FFS without clear explanations of how their body will heal itself over the coming decades.

I have yet to see any FFS in real life but even in images, male cues are left.

The spacing between the eyes is not changed and the tilt of the eyes never really changes. And eventually the top lip shape and proportion returns which restates the length of the philtrum.

It is also hard for them to keep the hair line, even though surgery might lower that initially. FFS certainly lessens it all but i haven’t seen one that covers all the cues permanently. Maybe if they have multiple surgeries? Bergdorf doesn’t when seen without filters and makeup. Neither does mulvaney.

SinnerBoy · 29/04/2025 11:06

Helleofabore · Today 07:47

Let’s not forget, that it is illegal to undertake a sexual relationship without disclosing that you are not the sex you have allowed a sex partner to believe you are.

Yes, there was that poster a few months ago who insisted that no one could tell, but still lied; and that it was his right to do so, for his safety...

GreenFriedTomato · 29/04/2025 11:49

I've noticed Ella Morgan from 90 day fiance has been making TV appearances since the SC ruling.
If it wasn't for the voice, I might possibly not notice he's male at first. He looks similar to many women in my area that go for the lip fillers and heavy make up.
With that said, the majority of TIM look nothing like him

Theeyeballsinthesky · 29/04/2025 12:06

CaveMum · 29/04/2025 11:39

This I would love to see!

somehow I suspect after generating lots of headlines they don’t actually do it because something something transphobia

SinnerBoy · 29/04/2025 12:22

CaveMum · Today 11:39

Trans judge threatening to go to ECHR:

Let him; and he's a judge no more, he was allowed to resign quietly, instead of being sacked, as a result of his partisan activism.

KilkennyCats · 29/04/2025 12:26

SinnerBoy · 29/04/2025 12:22

CaveMum · Today 11:39

Trans judge threatening to go to ECHR:

Let him; and he's a judge no more, he was allowed to resign quietly, instead of being sacked, as a result of his partisan activism.

Shock
CaveMum · 29/04/2025 12:43

SinnerBoy · 29/04/2025 12:22

CaveMum · Today 11:39

Trans judge threatening to go to ECHR:

Let him; and he's a judge no more, he was allowed to resign quietly, instead of being sacked, as a result of his partisan activism.

You’re right, I should have phrased that as “trans former judge”.

Merrymouse · 29/04/2025 12:49

It's pretty obvious that the GRA has never actually changed sex for all purposes, even when that would be publicly outing, such as in the case of a peerage.

But doesn't the judge have to start again with a new case?

It's not clear what could be argued that wouldn't be solved by additional unisex provision.

The ECtHR has made it clear that they balance rights, e.g. the Polish case that found that a parent doesn't have a right to change their sex on their child's birth certificate.

LonginesPrime · 29/04/2025 12:59

GreenFriedTomato · 29/04/2025 11:49

I've noticed Ella Morgan from 90 day fiance has been making TV appearances since the SC ruling.
If it wasn't for the voice, I might possibly not notice he's male at first. He looks similar to many women in my area that go for the lip fillers and heavy make up.
With that said, the majority of TIM look nothing like him

Well, as a million trans people and Dawn Butler et al have pointed out since the ruling, appearance isn’t an appropriate way to determine someone’s sex, since there are lots of GNC women who don’t conform to stereotypical beauty standards either.

Which is why the law needs to be based on biological sex and not on whether you’re rich enough for top-tier plastic surgery.

SeaBaseAlpha · 29/04/2025 13:53

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere, but I just came across the You Gov surveys from 2020 and from 2025, and the change in attitudes makes interesting reading. I presume politicians may take note.

Is anyone worried about pressure now to change the Equality legislation?
Is anyone worried about pressure now to change the Equality legislation?
PriOn1 · 29/04/2025 14:19

FlakyCritic · 28/04/2025 18:57

Again, I promise you don't pass. None of you do. So it's not a secret.

And you're running away rather than listening to other people's point of view and considering the needs of someone other than yourself. Your whole attitude reeks of selfish and self-absorbed male entitlement, you don't understand how women feel because of your male entitlement. Your entire attitude outs you as male.

Not just running away. Giving bitter digs against women for fighting to get their rights back by pointing out the reality of transactivism. This is the second such comment:

“Answer to that question would place me among pariah class which is now labeled as problem, as mentally ill, incapable, dangerous (thanks for that).”

Simply more women hatred from yet another committed misogynist who blames women for what his fellow men have done. All women did was point it out as they tried to wrest their stolen rights back.

FlowchartRequired · 29/04/2025 14:21

SeaBaseAlpha · 29/04/2025 13:53

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere, but I just came across the You Gov surveys from 2020 and from 2025, and the change in attitudes makes interesting reading. I presume politicians may take note.

Edited

Stonewall et al worked very hard to achieve this rather dramatic result. It may not have been the result that they wanted, but it was the one they got.

LastTrainsEast · 29/04/2025 14:29

The transwoman speaking (Ella) says he will continue to use women's toilets 'whether or not this legislation comes in"

It's amazing how badly informed these people are. Anyone who even watched the news ought to know that he is 15 years too late for that. This is not new legislation and it is the law.

What was the point of getting the opinion of someone who has no clue what is going on and has said he will break the law anyway.

GreenFriedTomato · 29/04/2025 14:40

I assume they got him on because it might attract viewers who aren't interested in trans issues, but know him from the reality TV show. And perhaps because he passes better than most other trans.
I only got up to the part where he says he'll continue using the women's toilets. I can't stand Madeley so I'll watch the rest another time. Apparently he goes on to talk about being on women's NHS wards and how frightening it would be for him to wake up on a make ward next to men.
Another case of a TIM being oblivious to how actual women feel or simply not caring. Also the bad actors aren't real trans. Who is he to decide

FrippEnos · 29/04/2025 14:45

GreenFriedTomato · 29/04/2025 11:49

I've noticed Ella Morgan from 90 day fiance has been making TV appearances since the SC ruling.
If it wasn't for the voice, I might possibly not notice he's male at first. He looks similar to many women in my area that go for the lip fillers and heavy make up.
With that said, the majority of TIM look nothing like him

The thing about Ella is how much surgery have they had that makes them pass?

They are not your average Transwoman

LastTrainsEast · 29/04/2025 14:55

One thing is clear. You can't discriminate against trans people, but despite popular opinion that doesn't mean you can't say NO to trans people.

So no he can't carry on using women's toilets or changing rooms. At best he could campaign to remove all women's spaces, but then he'd be in the unisex spaces and still not in the women's.

ButterflyHatched · 30/04/2025 02:21

What should be done with people who have been repeatedly demonstrated for the best part of a century's worth of research to only benefit from receiving actual specific medical treatment with a long and comprehensive track record of efficacy dating back fourty years in some cases and a hundred years in others, now that you have almost completely removed their access to said treatment?

Brainwashing and torture doesn't work, demonstrably.
Bullying them back into the closet doesn't deal with the problem - it just hides it. Badly. These people still exist. The trauma you cause to them won't go away. It just stops them being productive members of society.

No amount of 'no, you are the real bigot' DARVO will change the reality of what you are gloating about here. Reasonable people see you in a clearer light when you say stuff like this openly, and it's about bloody time that light was shined on this toxicity.

If you ban cancer treatments for cancer patients, then they still have the same healthcare as people who don't have cancer. They just don't have the healthcare they specifically need.

You were just about able to weasel it when most people hadn't just spent a week watching their transgender friends and loved ones shrink into themselves, retreat from social existence and revert back to the learned trauma responses they haven't seen with such ferocious intensity for years, but the very real impact of what your ideology has created in practice is hard to deny now.

GC ideology was always going to run into trouble once it pushed past the 'reasonable concerns' trojan horses and started showing its true face. Well, the mask has been slipping for a while now and people are noticing that you are still pushing toward an eliminationist agenda despite constant assertions that this was never about toilet bans and removing healthcare for adults.

The whistleblowers are amassing, the cooked books don't line up, the pet bigots parachuted in to grease the wheels of social murder as one last hurrah before retirement are a recurring pattern so predictable that denying it requires ever more desperate contortions. You've just detonated the integrity of the law by imposing a ban so ridiculous and so brazenly in breach of the UK's obligations to the ECHR that legal professionals who wouldn't have touched any of this with a barge pole are now scrambling to salvage what they can of the situation. The Prime Minister has weathervaned to court your hate votes with such shallow desperation that nobody on any side of the lines is buying it.

The price of fixing the nightmare you have created is likely to mean an effective withdrawl of single sex services in most cases and an open door to the far right when this goes to courts and consultations in the years to come.

You won your battle against an ally who has been fighting your corner for decades, but it's likely to cost all of us the war.

It's like the 2nd class passengers on the titanic triumphantly declaring that steerage don't get to load into lifeboats before they do.

GreenFriedTomato · 30/04/2025 03:07

What on earth are you on about. Such hyperbole! Retreat from social existence...social murder...withdrawal of single sex services..the far right blablabla
Just because trans will have to use unisex toilet from now on and stay out of a very small amount of services that are single sex? And an ally that has been fighting our corner for decades?? Have you been sniffing glue or something? Such ridiculous exaggerations just make you look unhinged

SinnerBoy · 30/04/2025 03:13

It's like the 2nd class passengers on the titanic triumphantly declaring that steerage don't get to load into lifeboats before they do.

Isn't it telling that you see women as second class.

GreenFriedTomato · 30/04/2025 03:15

And comparing cancer treatment to gender reassignment. Seriously?