Anyone else worried Trump’s advocacy of gender-critical views taints and discredits them?

[PotteringPondering]

I’m gender-critical, and was pleased when Trump issued his early Executive Orders on Protecting Children from Chemical and Surgical Mutilation, and Keeping Men Out of Women’s Sports.

But now… everything else. The sickening bullying of Zelensky and support for Putin, the threats to invade allies, the insults, lies, laziness, lawbreaking, cruelty and incompetence.

I’m concerned the fact Trump is an advocate of gender-critical views taints and discredits them in the eyes of thinking people. The verdict of history may be harsh because of the Trump connection.

I’m a resident of Terf Island, and still passionately hold GC views. But the support of Trump and Vance is starting to feel less like a blessing, more like a kiss of death.

Yes, I'm now fully committed to the view that biological sex isn't real, and that men and women should share prison cells and sports teams. I just couldnt live with myself or feel that I was a morally pure person if I didnt believe the precise opposite of Donald Trump.

We're going to need a separate board for all of these threads soon.

Posts just asking if its really worth opposing trans ideology if it means agreeing with trump. Then lots of british women dutifully condemning trump, even though they havent actually supported him at all.

Concerned posters castigating other posters for not following the script - we are supposed to say trump isnt GC, he's a convicted rapists, he wants women barefoot and pregnant....

It's going to go on and on, because the concerned posters want us to say that fighting trans ideology is not worth it. Its been going on for years. At first it was because opposing trans ideology wasnt progressive, or anti gay, or anti women, or racists, or against 'intersex people', now its pro trump.

Everything around trans ideology becomes scripted and full of slogans. Having to continuously reply to bullshit accusations is just following their script.

Ive said it before, but if the concerned posters really believed that trump was such an imminent danger to women, they wouldn't be spending their time on a british parenting forum.

I applaud you!

Sometimes I think this is exactly what some people want us to say. Hence all the hand wringing about saying something positive about the EOs.

I don't know HOW MANY TIMES we have to say that it was completely within the Democrats means to you know, stop sterilising and mutilating kids and putting male murderers and rapists into female jails.

This is on them, not on the women who frequent Mumsnet.

I think the US and the UK have fundamentally different approaches to human rights, with the US (whether considering guns on the right or abortion on the left) prioritising individual freedom, and the UK balancing competing rights.

Mentally Americans are the people who didn't want to put up with their neighbour so got on the Mayflower and then headed west.

Obviously I am stereotyping and generalising massively, but I think our common language hides huge philosophical differences.

The only positive thing is that each time we do this, each time we engage with these types of threads people do read them. And hopefully every time someone will stop and think and stop worrying that they are going to be aligned with the far right for fighting for women and children.

The other way around. Lots of people assume that Rowling, Duffield etc. are aligned with Trump because of their superficial agreement on this issue. Hard of thinking people, obviously.

I am one of those people that hadn’t seen a thread on this topic before today’s. So it is useful in that respect.
I am, like many, a GC woman who is actively campaigning against Trump, his administration and the Far-Right. I don’t see any problem with understanding that Trump’s position on gender ideology (with respect to Trans) is reasonable: no men in women’s sports, prisons, spaces, but the rest of his policies and behaviour are deplorable and wrong.
I also think that the Hitler, vegetarian analogy could be useful for explaining this to critics.

Less than a year ago, posts correctly describing transwomen as men would be deleted.
The Guardian for example, never described trans sexual offenders as transgender.
We were silenced.
We were bullied because we wouldn’t give up our rights and freedoms to men that demand they have priority to our place in society.
We are criticised because we want to protect our children…

I don’t give a flying toss anymore what others think. My mind is my own and no one’s opinion of what I should or shouldn’t think matters to me. Just fuck off 😁

Well that’s the point, isn’t it?

Right wing forums aren’t full of insecure, weak minded people handwringing about whether Trump is shifting to the left by “aligning with Julie Bindel and other such Leftists”.

I feel sorry for people who don’t have the inner strength to hold their view because it’s what they believe, but instead want their view to be considered “acceptable” by the “right sort of people” whoever they’re supposed to be.

So yes, let’s ramp up the child sterilisation shall we? Because Trump thinks that’s bad, so we must think it’s good, or we’re such terrible people waaaah!

Pathetic.

I’m concerned the fact Trump is an advocate of gender-critical views taints and discredits them in the eyes of thinking people. The verdict of history may be harsh because of the Trump connection.

I think what you mean, OP, is that it taints and discredits them in the eyes of non-thinking people.

I don't really give to shits about what non-thinking people conclude and I haven't since I was about 14 years old. It's an attitude I'd recommend. Following along with progressive groupthink is no more laudatory than any other kind of groupthink, and why would you pay attention to the hard of thinking anyway?

Why anyone would think the views of Trump, or anyone else, on Ukrainian-Russian political conflicts, would relate in any way to gender ideology, I do not know.

You seem to think he cares about women to fit your ideals, he and his cronies don't care about women or children he just cares about what they see as right, I mean look at their "family planning " polices not giving a hoot about women or children.

The ones doing the smearing and crediting Trump for doing GC things that he's not remotely connected with are the idiots. They are the ones legitimising him.

Take for example the news about Sussex University and Kathleen Stock yesterday. It was totally UK based and down to UK law and women with in the UK taking action. But the reports mention Trump in an attempt to try and smear these women who have the actual preexisting, long before Trump, law on their side.

So no I'm not worried about the smears. I am worried about this fuckwittery is legitimising Trump as sane and rational and 'taking common sense action' in areas he's had fuck all to do with.

I think this is an important point.

The people attacking JW are the core of the Democrat party these days - middle class progressives who are convinced of all the tribal beliefs - gender ideology is great, you need racism to fight racism, that working class people are embarrassing bigots, and the poor need to sit tight, take their handouts, and vote Democrat.

They are like the Labour Party on steroids in terms of blind commitment to ideology - so many Americans I know over the past ten years have drifted to the Republicans due to this. They are now a far broader tent in terms of who is under that banner. They are pretty united on gender ideology being batshit though, and dangerous.

I have never seen anything that suggests that Trump has an issue with gay people. He hasn't done anything politically to oppose them, he doesn't seem to have been bothered by them in his private life before politics, his mentor was a gay man, he has appointed a number of homosexual people to important positions in his government. He danced with the Village People at his inauguration for goodness sake. He's never, as a politician, spoken out against things like same sex-marriage.

This is another case, from what I can see, of people on the left assuming that because of things like his view on the Ukraine, he must somehow also be homophobic, because apparently all bad ideas are one bad idea. Which is frankly silly.

Anyone else worried Trump’s advocacy of gender-critical views taints and discredits them?

No. I do find it genuinely interesting that a hugely sexist meglomaniac shares the same perspective as me on single sex sports, services etc, but that we have pretty much no shared perspectives on anything else. It's proof to me that, thankfully, I've moved on from the simplistic world view I had when I was 13 years old.

I disagree. Bigotry is intolerance of the views of others (as displayed by nearly all trans activists). Trump is not intolerant, he is opportunistic. If he thought transactivists, or any other cause, would benefit him then I am sure he would promote it. Democrats have handed him a golden opportunity to win the presidency and the majority of Americans on a silver platter and he is running with it.

TempestTost

I watched Jamie Read's recorded livestream of the Peterborough event and it was seriously disconcerting to see the same old trope points being made at Jonah Wheeler. Who took it all in and just replied simply that he had taken the time to listen to women and to detransitioners.

When he added, 'should I have ignored them' and the answer 'yes' was yelled out, it really showed the level of entrenchment that is there in that party. That they think that he should ignore the women and the detransitioners, and the opinion polls, was appalling to hear. That they couldn't even have a discussion.

My take away from that and the resounding silence that continues from Democratic Party leadership is that they will only move their position in about 2 years time as there is a cacophony of detransitioner voices and law suits and when more and more of the sporting federations have followed World Rugby, World Athletics and others. When the opinion polls have continued to show the same results as they are now showing in the UK and USA, I cannot see how that party could continue to ignore women and detransitioner's voices.

Sadly, I expect that they will continue to double down.

Didn't the trump administration stop all diversity training in schools ? I think Gay people are under the "diversity umbrella " @TempestTost

They might be under the diversity umbrella, but let's be honest here, how much LGBTQIA+++ diversity training do you think actually focuses on boring old gay and lesbian people these days?

I beg your pardon? Did you call me pathetic?

They have stopped DEI initiatives, at least for now.

The Democrat talking point is that this means no one in schools can even talk about homosexuality, or slavery, or women's rights, in any context. That's not really what DEI is though - DEI is a particular lens on these subjects, one that many people think is fundamentally unethical.

And honestly, most diversity training is really quite shit, and it's not evidence based either - there's no evidence that it improves attitudes, and some that it makes them worse. A lot of it is self-contradictory bollocks.

I don't know where this idea that diversity training is the be all comes from, it's been around for about 5 minutes, and during a time when racist attitudes, including on the left, have grown exponentially.

The actions of a self-serving POTUS on another continent has no bearing on my knowledge of the truth - there are two sexes. Anyone who links the two is desperately hard of thinking.

Reality doesn't change based on who acknowledges it. Donald Trump probably also believes that the earth isn't flat, 2 + 2 is 4 and water is wet.