Anyone else worried Trump’s advocacy of gender-critical views taints and discredits them?

[PotteringPondering]

I’m gender-critical, and was pleased when Trump issued his early Executive Orders on Protecting Children from Chemical and Surgical Mutilation, and Keeping Men Out of Women’s Sports.

But now… everything else. The sickening bullying of Zelensky and support for Putin, the threats to invade allies, the insults, lies, laziness, lawbreaking, cruelty and incompetence.

I’m concerned the fact Trump is an advocate of gender-critical views taints and discredits them in the eyes of thinking people. The verdict of history may be harsh because of the Trump connection.

I’m a resident of Terf Island, and still passionately hold GC views. But the support of Trump and Vance is starting to feel less like a blessing, more like a kiss of death.

"I doubt whether Trump has any personal views on the issue. I doubt whether he understands half the words in the EOs."

If he had read and understood the EO he wouldn't have referred to 'two genders' after signing it.

It's clear that he signed many EOs without even pretending to read them.

Trump is not gender critical. His grab-em-by-the-pussy aggressive sexism is totally opposed to gender criticism. Opinions aren't a binary spectrum from left to right and not everyone who disagrees with thing "A" does so for the same reasons or thinks unanimously thing "B" instead.

Trump knows that humans can't change sex. He is also in agreement with the majority view of which way is down, and can be reasonably relied upon to be able to correctly identify that dark sky = night and blue sky = day. Knowing that humans cannot change sex does not make you Gender Critical.

To be gender critical is to totally reject the sexist assumptions that certain kinds of personality, taste and behaviour intrinsically belong with one sex or the other. Trump doesn't believe that, and is totally in agreement with the trans movement on that.

Let's get something straight. Trump is not gender critical. I'm not even sure he's anti trans. He's just pro himself, and pro anything he thinks is useful to him in some way.

The overwhelming majority of people don't think that trans women should be competing in women's sports and a smaller majority of people don't think they should be using women's toilets.

People who hold these entirely mainstream views are being labelled bigots and transphobes by the Democrats (and the political left and centre left in most western countries), who seem incapable of reading the fucking room.

Trump might be a nasty, ignorant piece of shit on many way, but he is an excellent strategist. He doesn't care about sounding intelligent and cultivated and refined, or like he's thought through the issues at length and come to a considered conclusion (like JK Rowling, for example) because he knows that's not what wins elections.

Michael Moore wrote an amazing essay in 2016 called "Why Trump will win" and he explained which states Trump needed to win in order to win the election, and how he was going to do it. Almost everything Michael Moore predicted in that essay happened almost exactly as he said it would. Trans issues weren't a hot topic in 2016 but they are now, and so this is really no different. He'll have identified that in certain states, clamping down on trans stuff will get enough voters to come out and tick the "Trump" box to get him over the line, and that in certain other states, forcing the Democrats into an absurd position where they have to say, "You can have a penis and still be a woman and compete in women's sports and if you believe otherwise you're a horrible bigot" will at least make a lot of would-be Democrat voters to stay at home on election day.

He certainly doesn't care about women, or women's sports. And if he thought that "women can have penises" was a popular viewpoint, that is the position he would take. He only cares about his own pursuit of power.

And he is fundamentally a troll, so now he's won a second term he's really going hell for leather with all these anti-woke policies to make the libs cry.

What the Democrats really need to do at this point is STFU about trans issues, accept that they have lost this one, go back to campaigning vocally about issues more people actually agree with them on, and when the next election campaign comes round (which is very soon), focus all their attention on those issues and do precisely nothing to reverse these measures taken by Trump.

But they are too stupid and un self aware to do that, so I expect they will lose the next election too. And the next Republican president might well be even scarier than Trump.

I can't believe you said he wants to protect your rights as a woman. The man gives fuck all consideration to your rights or any woman's rights. Here's the epitome of a misogynist.
He doesn't recognise the harm transgender bollocks places on women. He just knows it's a vote winner with his core voters.
He is a populist and will say what is needed to get into power.
He is a rapist, who welcomed the Tates to his country. He supports anti abortion policies.
This is why his stance on gender politics is so damaging for GC women. That people align Trump with us.

The pushback against genderism began, in earnest, in the UK. Briitish women, and men, have been leading the way - and american campaigners have taken their cues from the movement here.

What are now termed' gender critical' views are actually mainstream factual acknowledgments of reality......and it comes as no surprise that they will be taken up by any party that has issues with modern identity politics and those post modernistic theories developed on american university campuses.

Unfortunately, because Trump is so aggressive in his approach he automatically generates opposition to everything he does.......and that includes the push back by 'progressive/liberals' in the U.S. to his measures on males in women's sports etc...it also means that the progressive liberal madness could continue in Canada after the upcoming election, as now the public have united around what they perceive as the bigger and more immediate threat posed by american 'Me First' approaches.

Though, in the long run, the momentum is all on the side of sex realism and trans ideology will continue to unravel around the world...though it still needs a push and a dedicated effort.

American dollars were funding much of it.....though USAID ( to the likes of Stonewall) has now been cut.

And when you look at the EO’s they only bring the USA somewhat in line with the current UK guidance and policies.

The polls in the UK and the USA both show these are issues that voters are concerned about and the polls show clearly what the population wants to happen. Sadly, any political party (such as Reform) will take advantage of this to win votes.

There are now elected members of Congress and state governments who are part of the Democratic Party and who are outspoken that these issues need to be discussed and a few vote to protect children and female single sex provisions. I hope that this number will grow and more Democrats force the changes just as Rosie and Antonian and others have done.

However, Reform will add their voice here no doubt. What then?

Will Labour be aligned with not only the Tories but Reform as well?

Will this polarised, tribal discussion point disappear?

Motive and intent are so important. He isn't anti-trans because he's concerned about the erosion of women's rights or the infiltration of men into children's spaces. He's almost certainly in favour of men getting access to young girls and violent men getting access to vulnerable women.

He's anti-trans because he hates anything that isn't heterosexual and anything that isn't hateful.

He isn't gender critical and he does not share the views of gender critical feminists. It just so happens that a few aspects of these totally different beliefs align.

I understood what he said and that’s what matters to me.

He doesn’t want to protect your rights as a woman. He wants to be able to grab your pussy and have you barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.

We've already seen Labour adopting positions and policies that might appeal to Tory or Reform voters, along with some of the more ideological stuff around farmers, private schools, train drivers etc. Starmer will ultimately, it seems, go with the prevailing wind...and if that is to move away from Sef ID and all the rest of it, he most likely will.

I couldn't care less about Trump. I'm British. Do transactivists ever worry about the political leaders they get associated with, or the murderers, rapists, paedophiles and violent thugs?

(Fwiw, I don't particularly think Trump is the bogeyman some people need him to be, he's a human being and I'm sure he wrongly thinks he's doing the right thing from good motivations just like all the other useless politicians who shouldn't be in the pidition they are. Look at what our supposedly good and left-wing government is doing to disabled people, I'm mortally ashamed that I used to be a Labour member)

I'd say he's "anti trans" because that is what most voters are. Populists mirror the public mood, and populists also push back against outdated but prevailing orthodoxies. Most people understand the reality of sex...he's just voicing it.

Are you saying that knowing the facts around biological sex is an “outdated orthodoxy”?

Bizarre, then, that Trump's team has nominated, and Trump has approved, the appointment of women to one third of the posts in his cabinet.

Really ?
Well he’d have to have very long arms as I’m 4000kms from him.

I'm not reading this. Trump is a convicted rapist and you'd support him just because he hates transwomen even more than he hates normal women

This.

I've spoken about this a few times on here, but last year I got kicked out of an online parenting group for challenging the view that JK Rowling is a bigoted transphobe who has been brainwashed by the far right.

The women in that group were almost all based in the US, living in their little liberal echo chambers where they just can't understand how Trump keeps winning when nobody in their right mind could agree with his views. For them, if Trump agrees with something then it is automatically bad, and if Trump opposes something then it is automatically good. Anyone in their circle who privately believes that Lia Thomas shouldn't have been competing in women's swimming events must keep that view to themselves for fear of becoming a social pariah, thus reinforcing the view that everyone else thinks that Lia is a brave and stunning woman just trying to pursue her athletic career despite terrible discrimination, and so that must be the truth.

Although I tried in vain to explain, they just do not get that JK Rowling lives in a country where objections to gender ideology have come from across the political spectrum. Most of the biggest voices opposing things like self ID are left wing feminists like JK Rowling, Rosie Duffield, Julie Bindel and many others too numerous to mention. Not only have these people typically voted for left wing parties (and been very vocal about it) but even those on the political right in the UK are mostly still equivalent to or even to the left of the Democrats in the US.

This is something they cannot and will not ever get their heads round because they live in a bubble and have very little intellectual curiosity about people from other cultures. These are people who think they are worldly if they possess a passport and have seen Big Ben or been up the Eiffel Tower, but they have never taken the time to understand how the political landscape is vastly different in other countries they think should be the same.

You might vote Democrat, but if you think that civilians should have the right to own guns (even if you believe there should be more gun control than there currently is in the US), if you believe that three months of paid maternity leave is a good deal, and that people should take responsibility for paying for at least some of their own healthcare, or that it's normal for rich people to pay more and get better healthcare or skip to the front of the line, if you believe in a relatively small state with lower taxes and more personal responsibility, I'm sorry to say that if you came to the UK and became a British citizen, the Tories would be the political party for you. You would be considered fairly right wing.

Calling JK Rowling far right, when you're from the US 95% of the electorate are right wing by European standards, and when you clearly don't have a Scooby doo about any of the other political beliefs she has expressed over the years or where those beliefs put her on the UK political spectrum, putting her in the "Trump supporter" box purely because she doesn't pretend to believe humans can change sex, just displays an appalling level of ignorance about the world outside your borders.

But they are a product of their environment and can't be entirely blamed for their stupid opinions.

I reserve far harsher judgement for anyone in the UK suggesting that belief in biological reality is a Trumpian view.

The US is not the leader of the free world anymore and hasn't been for a long time. We don't actually have to pay any attention to what either the Republicans or the Democrats have to say about this because we are sovereign countries who make our own decisions and decide our own values.

When it comes to trans issues, the most influential factors coming out of the US, and the ones we need to be far more worried about than either the Republicans or the Democrats, are the owners of social media, i.e. the Musks and the Zuckerbergs of this world (who owns TikTok?) and the US based big pharma and for-profit healthcare industry who are pushing "gender affirming care" for their own financial gain and trying to persuade their colleagues in the rest of the world that this represents best clinical practice.

Yes, I agree. But I feel the same about quite a lot of right-wing people - I agree with them on this issue but not much else.

Too many people want to divide humanity into two camps: nice, kind, caring, mostly left-wingers who support "trans rights" or wicked, evil, racist, homophobic, mostly right-wingers who are "gender critical". The members of the first group often see themselves as the Goodies, noble Upholders of Truth. I imagine they picture themselves with upraised chin, looking slightly frowningly into the middle distance, ready to take on the Baddies.

But the world isn’t like that. People are complicated, can hold a variety of views on different subjects and don’t necessarily fall cleanly into one camp or the other. In fact those camps don’t really exist.

When trans rights supporters/activists assume that because I am "gender critical" I support Trump etc., I ask them about their opinions on the Middle East. When they tell me, as they nearly always do, that they are pro-Palestinian, I ask them if that then means that they support Hamas and the homophobic, misogynistic Iranian mullahs too - after all, as they have one opinion in common they must share all their other opinions too…

That usually shuts them up.

This is why his stance on gender politics is so damaging for GC women. That people align Trump with us.

Really? You think most people think Trump is just like J.K. Rowling, Julie Bindel and Rosie Duffield?

Even a stopped clock it right twice a day. I think part of the issue is people are so divided. I don’t really understand when having a reasoned conversation and agreeing to respectfully disagree became problematic. Just because I agree in one point doesn’t mean I agree with everything else he says.

Im pretty sure I could find a point of commonality with just about anyone tbh.

That is your opinion. ‘thinking people’ , however, may have the self awareness and humility to know that they have no idea what goes on in someone else’s head. We can only judge by their actions.

Trump’s actions in putting a stop to the medicalisation and exploitation of children, and the removal of hulking men from female changing rooms and playing fields is a ‘good’ ( which seems have been enthusiastically approved and adopted by large numbers of his electorate). I will leave it to a higher power to judge his ‘intentions’.

BTW, what are yours? Because I might speculate that your ‘ real’ intentions are actually a desire to cut girls’ breasts off, and facilitate men being able to access women at their most vulnerable : half naked in a changing room, locked in a prison cell. But I won’t suggest that, because I don’t know.

No, I'm saying that most people agree with the measures against males in female sports and spaces. It was the post I was responding to that used the term " anti trans". Trump is merely reflecting popular views.

Right, got you! Got a bit muddled there.

This is why his stance on gender politics is so damaging for GC women. That people align Trump with us.

Works both ways. Who the hell wants to align with these racist sexist Democrats who just persecuted a black politician? The Dems are getting more and more insane.

Anger, Personal Attacks and Porn: Dem Wheeler Takes the Heat at LWV Event in Peterborough

New Hampshire Democrats have repeatedly and publicly accused Wheeler, who is Black, of supporting “Jim Crow” policies by supporting women’s-only spaces.
At one point, the League of Women Voters’ video stream of the event was hijacked, replaced with graphic images of sex, along with a racial slur. The stream had to be shut down.

https://nhjournal.com/anger-personal-attacks-and-porn-dem-wheeler-takes-the-heat-at-lwv-event-in-peterborough/

What about that nurse recently almost losing their job for misgendering a racist nonce? This stuff happens again and again.

Trump is a racist sexist idiot so are many Democrats. Like it or not Trump got MORE support from minorities than other Republicans. The reasons for that are complex, but the fact some Democrats use women and minorities as props with no autonomy or respect.

We can actually avoid supporting the bad stuff both sides are doing and most of the time the gender crit side does that. If anything the gender critical side is TOO prone to self police and to spend days arguing whether some ultras are need expelling from our side because they are too right wing. On the other hand the right leaning part of our coalition gets irate because they see themselves as stronger on calling out the sexist evils carried out by Muslims etc. Those debates get really nasty we have seen it on Mumsnet.

However there is a huge difference. The Trump coalition and the genderists tend to excuse truly horrific acts their side does with ease and with no debate.

At worse the British gender crit coalition has an internal division over language and how much we use the right or left to get our agenda carried out. We keep arguing, debating and fighting and that is in fact our strength. A bunch of pesky women with some guys too, who are difficult with opinions, is never going be angelic. Our side doesn't have to be perfect, we actually recognise the complexity of being human.

That is why we keep winning. We took back the Tory party, Labour is changing gradually, we broke the SNP, even the Lib Dems now are forced legally to allow women to say they are real while trying to marginalize them. Lots more to do, but you can see the progress.

People are capable of taking dispassionate views on political matters. It is not necessary to have always to align along tribal identity pathways....whereby if you agree with one thing you have to agree with everything else that party says or does, or vice versa. Realpolitik is the opposite of ideological politics....it deals with pragmatic and sometimes harsh realities.

It matters not what Trump thinks or feels as an individual..it matters what he does. Trump is merely the instrument of a particular time in history...though of course his personal style, and that of his administration, has impacts too - as we're finding out in Europe.

Sex based realism is the mainstream position the world over.