Non fatal strangulation and choking during sex

[ArabellaScott]

Grim read.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62zwy0nex0o

The hostility is because, quite simply, you cannot consent to being physically harmed.

Some men enjoy punching women on the back of the head as they climax. It’s called a “donkey punch”

Will they be teaching people how to do this “safely”?

I'm not sure what the silence means. But most women would not wish to admit they had tried it on a man and thus realised how dangerous it was. It's a total power trip, which may be why men enjoy doing it.

What other illegal and harmful activities do you think we should provide “workshops” on?

I know child abuse/ selling drugs/ physical violence/ fraud etc. is wrong, but people do it anyway; making it illegal doesn’t work. So how about workshops where people can learn to do it as safely as possible?

Is that true - i've never heard of it ( Donkey Punch) I can only imagine it comes from pornography?

It’s true.
And you’re correct, it originated from porn.

I don't agree with any of it and I think this choking trend is horrible. But are you really comparing a nasty harmful sexual activity practiced by some consenting adults (yes I know you can't consent to violence but several women here are arguing for their right to enjoy it) with CSA and fraud? No child is consenting to the former and no adult is consenting to or enjoying being scammed. Come on

It seems to me as if drugs or other subtances are often involved in situatiions in which these sorts of practices are carried out - making these acts even more edgy and potentially lethal.

Why do you think you can consent to some forms of sexual violence and not others?

LOTS of children “consent” to abuse in that they think they are in loving relationships with abusive and predatory adults. We can comfortably state that children cannot consent to it because it is abuse.

“Consenting” to your own abuse is not consent.

There are two categories of harm. Harms we do mainly to ourselves (drink, drugs etc) where workshops might help to reduce immediate harm, but with a view to long term cessation. And then there are harms we do to other people, with or without their consent, which would include breath play, and I cannot see why these sorts of harms should be workshopped in any way other than as a guide to the dangers and support to desist.

You compared it with child sex abuse.
I would compare with it sex work. Prostitution is dangerous and illegal in most countries. But there are plenty of outreach initiatives (workshops?) teaching sex workers how work in a safer manner and reduce the dangers. I don't agree with sex work or OF etc but it will continue so surely harm reduction is better than nothing. The same with illegal drugs or excessive alcohol I guess- people are consenting to harming themselves.
No one consents to being defrauded and I don't understand the comparison with CSA. Perhaps I need more coffee.

There are some factors which render “consent” meaningless.

One is being a minor.

One is being the recipient of violence.

One is being paid to participate.

It’s not either or. It’s more abuse.

The comparison with other crimes was because of the idea that just because people do illegal things anyway, we should just accept it and work around it.

This so-called breath play includes auto- asphyxiation so it would also fall into the harm we do to ourselves category. I would imagine it's even more dangerous when done as a solo activity and no one around to assist if it goes wrong

Oh good god, what is happening to the world?? I'm so glad and thankful I've never in my life been subjected to some of the horrific things on here or that it's ever even come up as a suggestion. I really fear for young women nowadays, porn is normalising all this abusive shit. What is wrong with people?! ' Breath play' 'anal play? It's not play it's vile and abusive and I don't care if that makes me a prude, narrow minded or whatever else they want to call me, it's downright dangerous.

All of these practices are about subjugating women and girls.

"The donkey punch originated in the late twentieth century sometime after the sexual revolution, when the empowerment of women was threatening the place of men in contemporary society. This shift in gender paradigms left men feeling threatened, and to reassert their authority, they created and popularized these theoretical and violent euphemisms. ... The secondary reward of the donkey punch is the creation, or reinforcement, of the ideal power structure, or solidifying existing gender roles"

@Imnotyourrapefantasy

I agree with this. I would categorise auto-asphyxiation in the former and partner-asphyxiation in the latter categories.

Fair points. I would rather 'workshops' simply point out the dangers and state there is no safe way.
As for sex work. It will never be eradicated. Although I do wish OF and the like were banned as I know very young girls who are doing and seeing this as a legitimate career option- far removed from the seedy world of pimps and street corners.
But given that prostitutes will always exist, I would much rather there were harm reduction initiatives and support, than left to their own devices because it's illegal.

Exactly. No one should be facilitated in how to put someone else's life slightly less at risk during an inherently life-threatening and completely non-essential activity.

People should be told to stop the activity. There is never a reason to put your hands or any kind of ligature around someone's neck.

There's an old film called Donkey Punch. I watched it without knowing what it was about. One of the most terrifying things I've ever seen. I do not recommend.

Prostitution and prostitute.

See how the word play and rebrand to "sex work" is to make it more respectable and hide the pimps who profit from selling others.

OF is still a prostitute providing sex acts for pay.

Breath play is one person assaulting another.

Grooming in CSA is all about making the child believe that they are saying yes to a sex act.

A TRA was happy to go on camera to say that if a child said she/he was not harmed by the sex act then the TRA would believe that to be true. A child who has been groomed will believe that having sex was not harmful and therefore she/he would not be harming another child by having sex with them in the same way.
Would you accept the TRA's conclusion or say that the childs understanding of harm is flawed.

Obviously the latter.

Where did the term 'sex work's originate? Was it in countries where it has been legalized (or decriminalised) such as the Netherlands?
I know over the years it's been considered politically incorrect and a slur to use the word prostitute. Which as you rightly point out is a way of making it more respectable.

Also, putting aside all the logical arguments to the contrary, that “consenting” to someone strangling you during sex warrants being taught how to do it “safely” because it’s only self harm…
what other forms of self harm should we be supporting people learning how to do “safely”?

Cutting? Burning? Poisoning? Punching? Blunt force trauma?

:-) I'm a failed PhD candidate and my research was around the differences between how goddesses are presented in the Homeric epics compared with the archaeological evidence of real life cult and ritual practice by Greek women in Asia Minor/Aegean Greece in the pre-classical period. LOL what a useless subject :-) I say failed because I had to quit after year 2, due to the rather pressing need to earn an actual living :-)

I do sometimes fantasise about going back to it when I finally sell my business and retire, although last time I looked, Classical Academe had been thoroughly infected by Foucauldian and Butlerian gender woo, so maybe not :-(

Re cutting, while the emphasis tends to be in distraction techniques, safer cutting methods are often taught- because people will continue to cut until they don't.

At the risk of derailing the thread entirely (not my intention) the topic of euthanasia just popped into my head. That has to be the ultimate act of violence/self harm but it's considered kind by many and legal in some areas. That's another thread entirely though.

I think it is pushed more to hide the pimps who are setting up websites and legal brothel those who are making a living off the backs of the prostitutes. Adult entertainment / Sex work / etc looks much nicer on the corporate filings. And the tax allowable expenditure list must interesting too.

But it will I am sure have originated from Unis and around the time Gender Studies departments replaced Womens Rights departments. Funding requests for studies look much nicer if its called work and workers rights. Much like paedophile has been rebranded as MAP minor attracted person for Uni research